[uucdigest] Wednesday, August 13 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6658
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: RE: [uuc] Tricolor Salvage RE: [uuc] Re: X-brace, was strut brace [uuc] Re: Track Tires for a new M3 Re: [uuc] <E36> WTB factory steering stops from M3 Re: [uuc] E46 Motorsport strut brace RE: [uuc] E46 Motorsport strut brace RE: [uuc] E46 Motorsport strut brace Re: [uuc] <E36> WTB factory steering stops from M3 [uuc] <E30> Source of Electrical Arcing Noise? Re: [uuc] E30 M3 Suspension Advice Sought ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:02:44 -0400 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Tricolor Salvage Will make for one hell of a "scratch & dent" sale...... > -----Original Message----- > From: Walker, Scott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 8:24 AM > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > Subject: [uuc] Tricolor Salvage > > > > > More Tricolor Salvage pictures > > http://www.blognewsnetwork.com/members/0000001/mpg/tricolorAut > os/tricolorAut > os.html > > > Enjoy, > > Scott > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:15:25 -0400 From: "Chris Baker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Re: X-brace, was strut brace Thanks to you and Andy T for the replies. And you're right, I'm not your average clueless commuter. I'm the special kind of clueless commuter that likes to fiddle (i.e. - can't leave well enough alone). Not to be confused with an experienced track driver (very slowly working on that). And thanks for the nutsert heads-up. Chris B. '94 325i - ------------- The X-brace adds noticeable stiffness to the car's front end. It's certainly worth having, especially since the other mods you now list indicate you're working the chassis harder than, say, the average clueless commuter. However due to the model year of your car it may not have factory nutserts into which the front X-brace bolts mount. This will complicate your installation slightly. Here's one set of instructions: http://www.logun.org/xbrace.htm Or got to: http://www.understeer.com/ and click on "How to install an x-brace" under Tech write-ups. Neil 96 M3 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:46:11 -0500 From: Neil Maller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: Track Tires for a new M3 on 8/12/03 8:45 PM, "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > A friend of mine just bought a new SMG equipped M3, and we are going to take > our cars to Road America in September. When he called Tire Rack to buy rims > and track tires, they recommended that he go to 17 inch SSR rims, staggered > one inch front to rear, and Kuhmo Victoracer tires. I was recommending that > he use the Michelin Cup tires, but they said that they did not come in the > right size for the 17 inch rims. > Does anyone have any opinions on the 17 inch vs. 18 inch rims on a new M3? > Are there any problems with the rotor clearance? > > Dave Miller > 95 M3 Tire Rack is pretty much the gold standard for info about what tire/rim combos will fit which cars. 17" tires will be less expensive in general, and there may be a greater range of available size choices. However that doesn't mean that all TR's advice is appropriate. Specifically I would try to avoid using staggered sizes for track tires, which would limit rotating wheels to distribute wear. You don't say what your friend's track experience level is. If he's a novice or close he's better off running stock tires. RA isn't particularly hard on tires, and rain is always a real possibility up there anyway. Neil 96 M3 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:02:23 -0400 From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] <E36> WTB factory steering stops from M3 Alex, Ben, Actually, the Kumhos are 235/40-17 as well. This is not a tire rubbing issue. It is a wheel scraping issue. Based upon the pattern of damage to the wheel, I believe the inside of the rim's outer edge is contacting something at full lock. I never saw it when I first mounted the wheels and checked for that sort of interference. I haven't seen "matching" damage to the sway bar/control arm/whatever else is down there. Perhaps 'full lock' means something different when one is calmly inspecting in the driveway vs. when one is trying to catch the back end? Dunno. Happened with the MXX3s before I lowered the car. I need to put it up in the air again and have someone steer to the limits while I watch from below. I can't mentally picture what they may have hit. Thanks. Jay ********************* > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > What size tires are you running on your M3 wheels? > > Where do the wheels rub? Any signs of prior damage > > to the front wheel wells? Any prior accident damage? ben keyes wrote <answering for Jay>> : > 235/40-17 MXX3's. tho I think he has 225/45-17 Kumho's > on the car now which may be wider. > > his car is low. really low. too low perhaps. the Sachs coil-over kit > which came off my E30 (yes it was an E36 kit on an E30) was > set up rather low, so that may have something to do with it. > > his car has AFAIK not been damaged in an accident, unlike > his first 325, which was totalled. > > > Ben > will be chasing Jay around Gingerman tomorrow in the STi... > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:14:29 -0400 From: ben keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] E46 Motorsport strut brace Chris Baker wrote: > Please elaborate. I've been telling myself I'm going to get a X-brace > for my car for awhile, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Should I > stop waiting? the E36-specific X-brace and a strut brace are two different things. the E36 X-brace goes under the car & is a part from a convertible originally designed to make up for some of the lost stiffness when the roof is removed. it also proves to provide a stiff front end on a roofed car & is consequently a popular upgrade. I think strut braces are only useful when not jointed at the ends (the E36 M3 LTW brace is like this, the (now NLA ?) UUC Strut Barbarian was like this, the Sparco E30 brace is like this, many braces from tuners are not) but that's a seperate argument. I saw an E46 M3 at the track yesterday which had a straight non-jointed brace that I think was some sort of BMW part but I didn't look too closely. The older the car is and the older the design of the car is the more likely it will have experienced loosening of it's structure and will not have been designed with the maximum stiffness in the front end. M coupes are generally not felt to greatly benefit from strut braces, but Roadsters are (roof vs no roof). my new STi doesn't need one but the prior version came with one from the factory. (added structural re-inforcements on the unibody, newer design). a relatively new E36 might not be old in years of service but is an older design might see a noticeable improvement. just don't get one with the "carbon fiber" decals on it. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:25:48 -0400 From: "Chris Baker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] E46 Motorsport strut brace Yeah, I've never seriously thought about a strut brace, just the X-brace. If I ever get down the list far enough to where a strut brace is next, however, it's a pretty solid bet that there will be no appearance/mention of carbon fiber. I'm thinking more along the lines of lightweight flywheel next. It sounds cool, plus I've never dropped the tranny in anything but a '64 Chevy 1/2 ton and I'm always up for a new wrenching experience. Availability of funds will naturally delay this project for the foreseeable future. 2003 tax return, perhaps? Chris B. - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of ben keyes Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 10:14 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [uuc] E46 Motorsport strut brace Chris Baker wrote: > Please elaborate. I've been telling myself I'm going to get a X-brace > for my car for awhile, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Should I > stop waiting? the E36-specific X-brace and a strut brace are two different things. the E36 X-brace goes under the car & is a part from a convertible originally designed to make up for some of the lost stiffness when the roof is removed. it also proves to provide a stiff front end on a roofed car & is consequently a popular upgrade. I think strut braces are only useful when not jointed at the ends (the E36 M3 LTW brace is like this, the (now NLA ?) UUC Strut Barbarian was like this, the Sparco E30 brace is like this, many braces from tuners are not) but that's a seperate argument. I saw an E46 M3 at the track yesterday which had a straight non-jointed brace that I think was some sort of BMW part but I didn't look too closely. The older the car is and the older the design of the car is the more likely it will have experienced loosening of it's structure and will not have been designed with the maximum stiffness in the front end. M coupes are generally not felt to greatly benefit from strut braces, but Roadsters are (roof vs no roof). my new STi doesn't need one but the prior version came with one from the factory. (added structural re-inforcements on the unibody, newer design). a relatively new E36 might not be old in years of service but is an older design might see a noticeable improvement. just don't get one with the "carbon fiber" decals on it. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:12:50 -0400 From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] E46 Motorsport strut brace Chris, Strut brace is super-easy to put on. I noticed a difference in the turn-in on my 325is when I installed mine. Do you have ASC? I don't think so. If my brace will fit your car, you're welcome to bolt it up and "road test it immediately". Let me know. Jay '93 325is *********** > Yeah, I've never seriously thought about a strut brace, just the > X-brace. If I ever get down the list far enough to where a strut brace > is next, however, it's a pretty solid bet that there will be no > appearance/mention of carbon fiber. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 11:00:46 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [uuc] <E36> WTB factory steering stops from M3 "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" wrote: > Alex, Ben, > Actually, the Kumhos are 235/40-17 as well. This is not a tire > rubbing issue. It is a wheel scraping issue. Based upon the pattern > of damage to the wheel, I believe the inside of the rim's outer edge > is contacting something at full lock. Jay, What you are describing can not physically happen on stock 17x7.5 M3 wheels with 235mm wide rubber. The tire protrudes a good bit beyond the width of the wheel providing an effective cushion. There should be no rubbing of the wheel lip itself under any circumstances. If the inside of your wheel is rubbing something enough to cause damage, I would hazard a guess that you are riding on either very wide (9.0+ ") front wheels that have way too much offset that rub on the strut tower. This can not happen with even '96+ 17x8.5" rear wheels. So either something is very bent or worn, or you are on aftermarket wheels that are wrong for your car. > Perhaps 'full lock' means something different when one is calmly > inspecting in the driveway vs. when one is trying to catch the back > end? It should not. Unless _all_ of your front control arm bushings are shot to hell, your control arm ball joint is hanging by the thread or camber plates are past dead. alex f ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:11:05 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] <E30> Source of Electrical Arcing Noise? Here's one I have not experienced before, so I seek the wisdom of the assembled Bimmer masses. The car is a '91 325iA with 81K miles that we picked up a few weeks ago. We haven't been driving it due to the need for a new timing belt. Well, now it has the belt and we drove it last night. The weather was warm, so we were running the AC. I heard what sounded like intermittant electrical arcing noises coming from either under the left side of the dash or in the driver's side kick panel (left side here in the U.S.). I decided to turn off electrical devices one at a time (the radio and blower fan were the only things on besides the AC) to see if it made a difference. When I turned off the AC, the noises stopped. Then to re-test, I engaged the AC again and the noises started again. AC off again, noises stopped. Has this ever happened to anyone else here? Did you find the source? Obviously my next step will be to read through the ETM to find out what is in that area, and then start taking thing apart to look for signs of arcing. We've owned two previous E30s and none of them has ever done this. TIA, Scott Miller GGC BMW CCA 1990 325i 1991 325iA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2003 09:19:32 -0700 From: Kurt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] E30 M3 Suspension Advice Sought Ed MacVaugh wrote: > I am installing a Dinan Stage 4 suspension on an E30 M3. I have never > modified a car in this manner before. I have strengthened the mounting > points on the front subframe for the sway bar mounts with steel to > double the thickness of the metal. I have welded on the doubling > plates to the rear trailing arms to strengthen those mounting points. I don't think the double plates are enough, unless you are going with a 16mm or smaller rear bar. You need a channel/triangular reinforcement also. Here's a pic of the reinforcement on my car: http://www.sci.utah.edu/~kuzimmer/images/trailingarm_reinforcement.jpg (Yes, I cleaned up the rust!) BTW, Dinan used to sell these. > > > I am thinking of using the Jeff Ireland mounts for the rear bar (the > Dinan kit calls for stock mounts with Dinan rubber bushings). What > does the group think? I think that a reinforced mount is good. I've seen people rip these out with bars as small as 16mm. I used the Turner version, but they are hard to install, see Mark's post. The Ireland version will be easier to install, but they will transfer more stress to the trunk floor because they do not make use of the stock mounting tab. There is a third design which is like the Turner piece, but each mount is made up of two pieces bolted together, making them much easier to install, and yet they still use the stock mounting tab. I will post the link as soon as I can find it... - -Kurt ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6658 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | |==================================================== | Turner Motorsport Inc . The Ultra-High Performance BMW Specialist | 207 Elm Street, Amesbury, MA 01950 | 978-388-7769 / fax 978-388-4202 | http://www.turnermotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning | and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! | 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com |__________________________________________________________
