[uucdigest] Thursday, August 28 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6707
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: RE: [uuc] RE: Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought... [uuc] RE: Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought: (part 1) RE: [uuc] RE: Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought: (part 1) Re: [uuc] I'm BAAACK 540i/6 Re: [uuc] Someone hit my BMW ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 23:49:05 -0400 From: "KMS - Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] RE: Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought... Diminished value is a valid claim. Unfortunately, it's also a state by state thing on whether it's allowed or not. As far as I can tell, Ohio does NOT allow diminished value to play a part in an insurance claim, while NY does. Brett Anderson KMS > -----Original Message----- > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dennis Liu > cheaper, maybe $3000 cheaper, maybe $5000 cheaper. Whatever that > difference > is, that difference IS THE DIMINUTION IN VALUE. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:08:06 -0500 From: Mark and Heather Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] RE: Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought: (part 1) I am pretty amazed at some of the completely inaccurate portrayals of insurance claims that have been posted here.. for example, the following.. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote.. >Ever hear this one before?: "Insurance companies are in the business of >COLLECTING money, and not in paying it out!" > BZZZZZZZT... Insurance companies ARE in the business of paying out money... that what it's all about! I can't readily think of another industry (other than gambling) in which so much money is paid OUT to customers.. (be it claimants or insureds) instead of for products... Now of course, as with ****ANY**** business, the goal is to bring in more than is paid out. 'Nuff said.. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote... >Bringing your car to an on-site insurance adjusting office is >like walking into the closing room at a car dealer. Never do it. These >all too frequent slimeballs parading in the name of reputable insurance >adjustors [sic] all play the same game > ummm. "JK" .... can you make a point without slandering, sterotyping or name calling? I have to give you bonus points for slamming TWO professions (auto insurance and auto car dealers) but c'mon... you forgot to slam cops and attorneys while you were at it..! . :-P And...finally " Never do it " ??? Sheesh.... Weren't you ever told to "never" say "never" ? :-D While I will agree that being given only one option to have a vehicle estimated *appears* Draconian, someone else touched on the fact that the reason this likely ocurred is because John demanded a cash payment based on his estimates... Again.. there may have been other options, but since we were not there I'll refrain from assuming... John.. my company (State Farm) offers a couple of options for repairs... I am sure that many other companies offer similar options.. 1) inspection at the repair shop of your choice when the vehicle is left there for repairs 2) repair of the vehicle at a shop with a direct repair relationship in which the shop writes the estimate and there is a repair guarantee (anywhere from one year to lifetime) given to the vehicle owner 3) inspection at a drive-in office 4) in rural areas, submission of a number of bids for repair 5) inspection of a non drivable vehicle at it's location In four of these situations, payment is made *directly* to the customer if that is desired. I am going to imagine that John declined several of the options listed above, as he explained he may not effect repairs to the vehicle... <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote.... > I don't blame them for making you come in and getting a low-ball >offer before getting a CASH PAYOUT. You just admitted that you were not >going to spend the $1255 to get your car fixed. You were going to let it >go or fix it for $200 or so. In that light, their offer of $683 is more >than fair. ok... this is completely off base.... The person that damaged John's car is responsible for the damages.. Therefore, Farmers Insurance needs to pay out (ohmigosh! :-) to John the amount of money it would take to repair his vehicle to the condition it was in prior to the loss. John can then do whatever he wants to do with the money... he can do partial repairs, complete repairs, or no repairs and go to Vegas and blow the money on slots if he wants to.. WHY you ask? Because it's his vehicle! If he wants to blow the money and drive a damaged car, then that's entirely his right to do so! ok.. so let's go back and look at why John had to drive 30 miles to get his vehicle inspected... Many insurance companies insist on seeing a damaged vehicle (whether it be an insured or a claimant ) in order to reduce fraud, and also reduce the likeihood that a customer is taken advantage of by another entity... the body shop.... Let's face it... Repair estimates are just that.... e-s-t-i-m-a-t-e-s ... ( get it? otherwise they'd be called "exacts") In many situations, it is impossible to write an estimate to the exact amount as there could be hidden damage or parts prices may change, etc... At any rate.. *any* estimator, whether an employee for a body shop or insurance company can write an estimate in any of the following manners: 1) on the low side.... possibly to garner business from a customer... this has the obvious pitfall of a customer being upset when the bill is *higher* for the final repairs 2) on the high side.. this is a repair written as a "worst case" scenario ... this way, if the repair does not entail all the items on the estimate, the estimator comes out as the customers "best friend" as the repairs cost *less* than the customer expected..... 3) for the items that are KNOWN to be damaged, as the vehicle sits in front of you... again.. like # 1, there is the potential for a supplement, which may upset the customer later.. As a customer, unless you are told, you'll likely never know which way your estimate is written....!! <[EMAIL PROTECTED] advised... >It has been my experience that one should never deal directly with the >other guy's insurance company, never! Always make the claim with your >own insurance carrier and let them deal with the other company. > While it may be easier to deal with your own insurance company, this method has it's own pitfalls... 1) you have to pay out of pocket the deductible amount... 2) you may have to pay some out of pocket expenses for a replacement rental car 3) the out of pocket expenses you have may not come back to you for several months, while your company pursues the other company, 4) the out of pocket expenses you have may not come back to you EVER if the other company has not accepted responsibility and is either: a) not a member of intercompany arbitration b) successful in their defense of arbitration when pursued by your insurer.... At least if you go against the other company first, you will know where you stand with regards to their liability decision, and what the likelihood is that you will recover your out of pocket expenses. John, since you've done this your options are the following: 1) accept the repair estimate and payment offered by Farmers Insurance 2) contact your insurance company and have them write an estimate and see what their estimate entails.. odds are, you'll get a different amount than Farmers and your repair shops gave you... !?!?! ok... So now that we have hopefully dispelled some of myths about auto insurance claims... I'll follow up in part 2 and explain why there is such a large difference between John's quote and that of the estimator for Farmers Insurance. Mark Williams Dallas, TX claim rep by day.. 91 ///M3 2.5L ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 07:42:15 -0400 From: "Zidlicky, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] RE: Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought: (part 1) >BZZZZZZZT... Insurance companies ARE in the business of paying out >money... Broadly disagree. (1) Insurance companies are in the business of "float". They collect money from customers, invest it over time to accumulate massive profits, buy or build buildings on prestigious streets in Manhattan (the Met Life building comes to mind) and tend to drag out the claims payment process and also lowball their payment offers. (2) Claims payment (timing) Need evidence? Note the length of time it takes an insurance company to cancel a policy for lack of payment vs. the time it takes to collect on a claim. If I ever dragged my monthly payments the way they drag their claims payments, all of my insurance would have been cancelled long ago. (3) Claims payment (amount) ... just note how many instances there are when the claims amount is not enough to cover the repair in question. (3) Customer experience ... given the heated reactions on this list, it seems that the aggregate customer experience with insurance companies leaves something to be desired. Something is sorely lacking when the customer experience at a Starbuck's, where one drops $4 for a mocha chino, is far superior than one's interface with their insurance provider ,,, where one drops $1,500 a year for car insurance for multiple years and then tries to collect on one $1,000 claim. I believe many people act so vehemently because they have shelled out so much money over time and never asked the company for anything ,,, but when it's time to collect on a claim, they are made to feel as though they're a crook trying to rip the company off ... when in reality, all they are trying to do is recover a single brick of the 10 they have paid the insurance company with respect to the building on Park Avenue. (4) Fraud risks etc. This definitely exists but not in the case that opened up this discussion. Further, the cost of this is also spread out over the monthly payments in the vast majority of law abiding customers. If I am already paying for your fraud risk, don't treat me like a criminal when I try to collect on a claim. Peter This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 04:50:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] I'm BAAACK 540i/6 I don't know why Edmunds doesn't show the incentives, but the TMV figures seem correct. Based on that I got the car for about $600 less than the TMV. BMW is giving the dealers $3000 on the 525, $3500 on the 530, and $4500 back on the 540's plus the dealers are motivated to clear out as well, 04's should be there any time now. - --- Dennis Wynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Congrats on the new ride! > > Just curious about the incentives and rebates. Neither Edmunds or KBB > show any on the 540 in that section of their web pagea - BUT if you > load up > a 540i/6 on Edmunds "price with options" it shows the "TMV" as being > less > than invoice (with every option MSRP $62,230, invoice $56,850, TMV > $55,472). > > Also, loading one up on CarsDirect also shows a few hundred under > invoice. > > Thanks! > Dennis > 330i silver/black/manual/sp/pp/xenon/cd (for now) > > At 02:51 PM 08/27/2003 -0700, you wrote: > >After 13 months of being Bimmerless for the first time in 12 years, > I > >picked up a 2003 540i/6 over the weekend to balance my need for > >performance with the need to transport a 7 month old. Artic Silver > >over Gray, NAV, Premium Sound, and sunshades. Could not resist the > >incentives and discounts, awesome deals are to be had! > > > >I'm sure I will have a million questions but I will start with only > >one. Anyone installed the new Bluetooth kit yet? > > > >Michael Greto BMW CCA > >'03 540i/6 > >'01 Boxster S > >'01 Frontier Crew > >'99 4Runner > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > >Do you Yahoo!? > >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 08:14:13 -0500 From: Dennis Wynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Someone hit my BMW A couple of years ago my daughter "Tapped" the rear of a Ford (Explorer?) SUV. No damage to her car at all - the Ford bumper folded under like a wet noodle. The SUV driver accepted my body shop recommendation and got a quote - I was thinking of paying for it out of pocket to keep it off her insurance. The quote was $1500 or more! The guy at the shop (I trust him) said it was just that expensive. The sad part is that he fixes a TON of these bumpers. They don't have to meet the 5mph safety standards - and they don't. So he said just about ANY tap means he sees them in his shop for large dollar repairs. Sure it was my daughter's fault for tapping them, but would have been no damage on a normal car turns into a hit on her insurance because the design of the SUV is not up to (car) specs. So yes, be very careful - some of these things can't handle even the slightest hit. Dennis 330i silver/black/manual/sp/pp/xenon/cd (for now) At 01:40 AM 08/28/2003 -0400, Michael Lawrence wrote: >Good luck and I think you are on the right track. I was shocked at some of >the replies as well. I was amazed that some actually considered it >cheating or screwing the insurance company if you take a check. I was >accused of the same when I wrecked my LTW and choose to total it, then buy >it back to rebuild. I felt it was my right that I had paid the premiums, >was given the choice, didn't ask for it and decided to take the choice they >gave me. > >I recently had a minor collision with a Honda Accord wagon. I was doing all >of 3-5mph in my suburban, the person was rolling forward to make a left >turn, I was rolling with them to make the same left turn and catch the >light. They floored it then changed their mind. I did nothing but just >release the brake, roll forward. I jabbed the brakes as soon as I noticed >they were not going, slowed to about 1-2mph? then my foot slipped off the >brake pedal. My feet were wet. Well in the time it took to put my foot >back on the pedal, I rolled into them. > >Not even a scratch in the dirt on the front of my bumper. But the weight of >my bumper coming down as I hit the brakes and the front of the suburban >moved down about 2 inches from it, caught his bumper cover and pushed it in >about 3 inches. I would have guessed $500 at most to repair. Well on top >of the $250 ticket for following too closely that I was sorely pissed about, >the damage paid by my insurance was $2900. In this case, I wanted to go >inspect the work myself as I KNOW there was no way it was that much damage. >Turns out, he had a rental car for 2 weeks, paid mileage to the shop, lost >work hours and about $500 for the trouble of the wreck. I had no say so in >the issue as it was after the fact when I found out and according to the >company, I will experience no difference in $500 vs. $3000 they paid out. >Go figure. I felt the person I hit was due whatever it put him out, but >was shocked at the amount for such a minor fender bender. To say I pay >alot of attention in the city now is an understatement. > >Mike > >----- Original Message ----- > > [uuc] [update] Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought... > > From: John Hovell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: [uuc] [update] Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought... > > > > Fellow Bimmerheads -- > > > > Thanks all for the many replies, both on and off the forum. I'll try to > > summarize (who am I kidding -- this is very long) what I have learned > > here for the benefit of other forum members. ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6707 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | |==================================================== | Turner Motorsport Inc . 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