[uucdigest] Thursday, August 28 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6710
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: [uuc] FS: 89' 325i 2dr RE: [uuc] FS: 89' 325i 2dr Re: [uuc] [update] Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought... re: [uuc] labor rates/was someone hit my car [uuc] RE: Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought: (part 1) re: [uuc] labor rates/was someone hit my car Re: [uuc] Re: Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:53:38 -0400 From: "Eurowerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] FS: 89' 325i 2dr Anyone have an interest in a 1989 BMW 325i, 2dr, white w/tan non-sport, ellipsoid headlamps, front and rear spoilers colormatched with small bumpers, Automatic tranny, 208K miles, no OBC, power windows and locks, non power sunroof? The car needs both lower control arms, front and rear struts and shocks, front brake rotors and pads. Good car, runs strong, owned by one of my clients that I almost never see. He is asking $2000.00, and may be a little flexible. I have already told several of my local clients about the car, so it may not last long. There are two small dents in the hood that are not creased. The Dent Wizard could take these right out. Good car, just needs basic 200K maintenance. No upgrades on the sound system. Everything on this car is stock. Also, the lower lip spoiler on the bottom of the front air dam is missing. Are there any of these cars out there that still have the lip spoiler? Kirk A. Gilchrist EURO-WERKS / Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Volvo Service and Repair 8 South Highland St. / Winchester, KY 40391 / 859-745-0125 [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 888-522-0271 toll free ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:12:26 -0500 From: "Alex Cagann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] FS: 89' 325i 2dr Also available :-) 1990 325is white and black, stick, 160k miles. I bought it for my girlfriend, but she took another car from inventory cause she didn't like the two door coupe thing...she has two kids. Alex Cagann http://www.autoconsortium.com > Anyone have an interest in a 1989 BMW 325i, 2dr, white w/tan non-sport, > ellipsoid headlamps, front and rear spoilers colormatched with small > bumpers, Automatic tranny, 208K miles, no OBC, power windows and > locks, non > power sunroof? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:20:45 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [uuc] [update] Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought... "John Hovell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > First off, to clarify a few things. I mentioned I might spend about > $200 on the car to *mitigate* the visible damage. This would *not* > restore my M3 to its pre-loss condition. I'll bet YOU can fully restore your car for under $200 yourself (and keep the change)! > I would probably get a body shop to sand off and apply some touch-up > paint to the license plate screw holes (from the other car) so at > least the bumper appears a uniform color. Touch-up paint is $20 from the dealer. One time when I needed some, a local body shop mixed me some for free! Oh, and they mixed in some flex agent since the paint was going on the bumper cover. Never hurts to ask ! ;-) > I would reposition the bumper cover myself. About 10 minutes of your time first time around. > If a shock was damaged, I would replace it with OEM (and those suckers > are $250 each). Depending on the year, the rear bumper shocks are either $90 or $160 (new small ones). Zionsvilleautosport.com sold me the new small rear bumper shock for $50 (IIRC). That's after my wife backed her E36 into the side of our garage (don't ask). The right side bumper shock worked as designed and other than a few scratch on the bumper cover, the car is as good as new. > Second misconception -- I am not *any* less entitled to the full > monetary amount of the damages if I decide to do partial or no > repairs, or heck, fix it myself. True, though the process of negotiating the final amount becomes unnecessarily messy if you are a). needlessly antagonize the adjustor; b). do not pursue the normal body shop/repair scenario. Contrary to public sentiments, insurance adjustors don't make a penny from the money they deny to/"screw" the claimants. They just want to do what they feel is right and fair as quickly as possible. This process is not personal, unless you make it so to your own detriment! If you stick with the regular body shop estimate process, eventually the insurance company will ask you in whose name should they cut the check. THAT is when you give them your name instead of the body shop's (because you are still shopping for a shop, you know). Case closed. Money in the pocket. Everyone is happy. BTDT. alex f ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:21:04 -0700 (PDT) From: "Curtis A. Ingraham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: re: [uuc] labor rates/was someone hit my car Barry J. Burr, aka jkerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, wrote: > Stanford European, where the body estimate was written at $70. per hour > labor has a standard labor rate (last time I was over there) of $95. per > hour. So their estimate is already below regular retail customer pay > rates. Other first quality BMW independants on the Peninsula charge > similarly or slightly higher per flat rate hour: > For reference, an hour of time on a good local dyno is about $100. > $tealers are at or above $125./hour. Stevens Creek I believe is up to > $140./hour. Plus dealers are gouging on parts prices while the indys > are charging regular list or less. I wonder if body and paint work is typically charged at a different rate than mechanical repairs and maintenance? I am aware of Bay Area BMW dealers that charge at and above the labor rates Barry asserts. These service departments can have 2-3 week waiting times for appointments. Aside from warranty work, which is presumably paid for by BMW NA, customers are free to go to the many good independent shops in the area. Yet the dealers' phones keep ringing, so why would they be motivated to charge less? As for parts prices, dealers charge at varying levels. At least one Bay Area dealer sells to BMW CCA members at below list price. Given mail order, local dealer, and local independent alternatives, I'm not sure why charging the existing prices would be "gouging". Is there a grand conspiracy at work here, or is it a functioning free market? Curt Ingraham 72 2002tii Oakland, CA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:38:48 -0400 From: "Zidlicky, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] RE: Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought: (part 1) >> Insurance companies are in the business of "float". They collect money >>from customers, invest it over time to accumulate massive profits, buy or >>build buildings on prestigious streets in Manhattan (the Met Life building >>comes to mind) and tend to drag out the claims payment process and also >>lowball their payment offers. >stereotypical, and inflammtory.... but you are welcome to your opinion :-) The last clause of my statement is stereotypical (even though stereotypes are often based on truths as are most generalizations) and inflammatory (yes, if you happen to work in the insurance industry). The front section is completely factual. Insurance is a very profitable business (if you doubt this, look at the net income figures) in which the majority of companies actually lose money on the writing of their policies and make money on the "float," where they reap the benefits of investing large amounts of money over long periods of time. There is nothing inflammatory or stereotypical about this. In fact, Warren Buffett (Berkshire Hathaway) discovered that the insurance business was the ideal way to aggregate large amounts of cash and then apply more aggressive investment techniques to reap massive amounts of returns / profits and reinvest these profits by buying other businesses. The folks at Leucadia and AIG (Mr. Greenberg) have followed Buffett. Most insurance co. heads do not have the investment acumen of a Warren Buffett ... but if you're going to make money on my money, it would be nice to receive 10% of the profits or so. It would take some of the sting out of insurance premiums (called premiums for a reason). Peter '88 m3 '90 325ic ... and yes, would go without insurance if it was legal (no collision ever but take the liability piece) This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you receive this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:48:38 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: re: [uuc] labor rates/was someone hit my car "Curtis A. Ingraham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Barry J. Burr, aka jkerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, wrote: > > > Stanford European, where the body estimate was written at $70. per > > hour labor has a standard labor rate (last time I was over there) > > of $95. per hour. > > I wonder if body and paint work is typically charged at a different > rate than mechanical repairs and maintenance? Absolutely! On top of all rates varying from shop to shop, the mechanical repair rates between dealer's body shop wrenches and main repair shop wrenches. That leads to fascinating satiation of dealership mechanics competing with and steeling work from dealership body shops wrenches. > I am aware of Bay Area BMW dealers that charge at and above the > labor rates Barry asserts. Are you referring to walk-in customer, BMW warranty, 3rd party warranty or insurance rates? All four are different. Wanna guess which one is the highest? alex f ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 14:04:25 -0700 (PDT) From: John Hovell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought... Evan -- Thank you for taking the time to respond to my email, and for sharing your comments. > The insurer (Allstate) of the driver that backed into my car called me the > same day as the incident, asked me where I wanted it fixed and if I needed a > rental. They accepted my choice of body shops (coincidentally the local BMW > dealer's shop), and offered $24 per day for a renta, through Enterprise. Here you are comparing apples to oranges. You describe an easy, relatively trouble-free insurance experience. I am a rational, relatively easy-going and agreeable human being, who like most others would be content with this experience, assuming I wanted the car repaired. In my case, Farmers never contacted me. I had to get my insurance company to contact them and **inform them I was even part of the accident**. First word from Farmer's came August 19th, twenty five days after the accident. They had my information incorrect. They still do, even after my repeated requests for correction. The did not ask me where I wanted it fixed, but told me to take it to their "network" shops (a pervasive practice throughout the industry I find quite shady, but will leave that point alone). To date, I have spoken with no fewer than 9 -- count them nine -- Farmers representatives at 9 different phone numbers in 3 different offices. Every time, it's a different story, a different person I need to talk to, and they need a week to process my request. One rep flat out refused to let me talk to a manager. > and was wondering what kind of POS I could get for that price. Turns out > they have a special price with Enterprise, who will direct-bill Allstate for > the rental. I ended up with a nearly new Ford Focus (certainly not a BMW Wonderful for you, but also irrelevant, legally. You should not be compensated for an insider, exclusive price, but for the publicly available street price for loss-of-use. This is along the same lines of Farmers' discounting of all BMW OEM parts 5% without explanation. I don't care if they get a 5% discount (and of course I can do much better than that for that matter). What if I want to buy the parts a week, a month, or a year from now? Will Farmers be there to assure me my 5% discount? Again, it really doesn't matter, as this is a convenience I have no obligation to offer Farmers. > pickup; hopefully he didn't have to pay for the upgrade himself. I can't > imagine a situation where the Focus would not have met my needs for the 3 > days, unless maybe I had entered a driving school. Now that would have been > interesting. "Yep, the tires were bald when I picked the car up". :^) Funny you mention it, because I was actually supposed to be at Thunderhill yesterday (Wednesday). I didn't go *mostly* for other reasons, although having a damaged car with possibly broken shock absorbers (a safety part) certainly contributed to that decision. Again, here, you are *voluntarily* giving up a right to drive a car you invested close to $60k in. Your choice, not mine. But -- I don't expect to get my $195 entry fee refunded. Compensation for this loss is not easily legally defensible as far as I can tell. The extreme example would be something like "I was on my way to my friend's house who had a million dollar check who said he would rip it up if I didn't get there within an hour. Now, Mr. Insurance Company, because your liable driver prevented me from getting to my friend's house, you owe me one million dollars." Heck, I could attach nearly any expense I could come up with in this manner. I am only asking compensation for direct, tangible, reasonable expenses incurred from my loss. > So while you may be entitled to something more than you're offered, how much > worse off are you if you settle for what you really need? Well, flippantly, of course I don' need a BMW altogether. Again, not legally relevant, though I *do* see your point. How much worse off am I, you ask? By my calculations, $2679.53 - $683.73 = $1995.80, roughly. Of course this is no bird in the hand. Essentially, you are asking me if pursuing Farmers is worth my time. Well, the short answer is probably not. But, at the risk of sounding immature, at this point it's personal. Also, for many people out there, a somewhat reasonable shot at $2000 for a morning in court is probably a good deal. I had convinced myself (while sitting in stop & go traffic on my way to the Farmers office) that if they gave me $1400-1500 I would go away a happy man and would waive liability for this incident. This price, I thought was fair, since it was the price of repairs at my shop of choice, plus a few hundred dollars Farmers would have otherwise had to pay in rental fees, added administrative expense, and the non-zero probability of a supplemental claim for hidden damages. $683 combined with their egregiously poor service was such a slap in the face that I am going to take the responsible party to court, if only to serve as a learning experience, regardless of outcome, and to give me the satisfaction that I at least sought justice on this matter, and didn't just roll over, which seems to be the typical knee-jerk reaction in this situation. Thanks once again to all for your comments and advice... please keep them coming if you wish. And of course I'll keep you updated to my progress and eventual outcome. Best, John ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6710 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | |==================================================== | Turner Motorsport Inc . 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