[uucdigest] Thursday, August 28 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6711
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: [uuc] Re: [update] Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought... (part2) [uuc] SI Reset Instructions Re: [uuc] I'm BAAACK 540i/6 [uuc] re: labor rates/was someone hit my car [uuc] E30 Rear Diff Bushing Part Numbers [uuc] Someone hit my BMW! - what price should the insurance pay ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:11:12 -0700 (PDT) From: John Hovell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: [update] Someone hit my BMW! Advice sought... (part2) Mark, thank you for your continued comments and advice. Please see below. On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Mark and Heather Williams wrote: > In your original email, this was really mentioned as an > afterthought..... a minor detail but it > really is significant... First off.. A repair rate of $60/hour vs $70 > per hour... I don't know about > you, but a $10 difference is a HUGE difference... would anyone here > like a $10/hour raise???? Of course! And believe I would be entitled to one if I did the sort of quality work that Stanford European is known for, versus the standard run-of-the-mill body shop. > Recognizing that you are in California, and the labor rate > differences, you should probably > call around to check out and see what the standard rate is in the > area... Also, you can call up FYI, Progressive, my own carrier who is also regarded in the industry as a *particularly* parsimonious carrier pays $68/hr as quoted by my rep. Kudos to JK for pointing out dealer rates are up to $140/hr in my area -- I was actually quoted $150/hr by my rep for dealer work, which they pay without a hiccup. > and ask for a claim rep or estimator for your insurer to see what they > would pay... (for grins, in > Dallas,TX the standard labor rate for body repair work is $36/hour and > paint and materials is > $22/hour!!) Yep, Silicon Valley is high cotton, no question about it. Even LA, a metropolis 400 miles to our south has rates in the neighborhood of $35/hr, according to my own claims rep. > What if your shop charged $125 an hour...? What if the $70 an hour you > were charged is $10 more > than any other shop in town...? Are you entitled to have your vehicle > repaired there?? YES! > Should Farmers insurance or the other person who hit you have to pay > that rate??? NO! Any I believe all I have to show is that the cost of my repair is *reasonable* in a court of law. If someone wrecks my Ferrari, no one is going to be able to competently repair my vehicle at $60/hr. Frankly, I don't believe my BMW is a "standard" vehicle (rental car companies actually rate it as an exotic, as I have found out) and I'm not convinced it deserves "standard" repairs -- whatever "standard" means in this context, again a vague term and in every case I have encountered, defined by the insurance companies themselves with no further explanation. > pre-loss condition... While it may be vague... I can tell you it does > not say that you should have > a new bumper " just cause" yours was damaged.... and here's why... the > bumper on your 1995 > M3 was *not* new... it was at least 7 if not 8-9 years old.. I am sure The car has been garaged all its life and had no defects. It had *one* original factory paint job, has of course never been sanded down or painted previously and looked new. And I have photos to prove it. > owe you. If the bumper is irreparably damaged, then of course you are > entitled to a new bumper, > but the insurance company may bid for a recycled bumper... is it OEM? > YES... Would any other > recycled bumper off another 1995 M3 be 7-8 years old ? YES! Can it > be panted to match the > car like your old bumper? YES! So then a used part would put you > back into pre-loss condition! When you order a new factory bumper cover, it comes primered from the factory. With your salvage bumper, you will have to sand off all the paint and primer, and start again. Already you have altered the part from OEM specifications. The job may or may not be done perfectly -- and probably won't. In any case, I don't see this as relevant. The part has already been marginalized via this method and I don't see why I should be required to accept it. Or -- what if I replaced my bumper 6 months ago with a new one? How would you know my bumper is 8 years old? The possibilities are endless. > REPAIR > > remove and install bumper 2.5 hrs > bumper repairs 1.5 hrs > paint time - 1.0 hrs > paint and materials $40 x 1.0 hrs = $40 > > cost (at $60 labor rate used by Farmers ) cacluated as > ($40 paint and materials + (5.0 hrs labor x $60) = $340 > > REPLACE > > new bumper cover $ 399 (this is a guess.. I am not at work) > remove and install bumper 2.5 hrs > paint time 2.7 hrs (paint the entire bumper cover) > paint and materials $40 x 2.7 hrs > > cost (at $70 labor rate used by your shop) calculated as > $108 + 5.2 hrs x $70 + $399 part price) = $871 A new bumper cover from BMW is $560, IIRC. A repaired bumper stuffed with sealant compound or molding compound is simply *not* the pre-loss condition of my vehicle. It might *look* to the untrained eye like the pre-loss condition of my vehicle, but it is not, to be sure, *the* pre-loss condition of my vehicle, period. A recycled bumper with the factory primer stripped off is *not* the *pre-loss condition of my vehicle*, either. I admit it doesn't mean much in my case, but when major body work is involved, Bondo, caulking and sealing compounds can add surprising weight to a car. I go to the track often, and I would be furious if my car weighed so much as 5 lbs more after it was repaired from an accident I was not responsible for. In fact I would go so far to say I would not accept this deviation from the pre-loss condition of my car. > Ok... so if your bumper *can* be repaired, then what you thought was an > accurate estimate *more than doubled* the repair cost, and probably > tripled > the amount of profit dollars for the shop!!! Do you still honestly feel > that the > shops have written you an honest estimate? Are all those people still in > the second camp? Honest does not equal cheapest possible. Again, refer to my Jiffy-lube example in my last email. > My suggestion, because I can't see your bumper from here <grin> ..... > I think you > really need to find out WHY the farmers estimator said your bumper can > be repaired, > and why the body shops you spoke with think it cannot be repaired... Farmers said my bumper can be repaired *because it is cheaper* and Stanford European wants to replace it *because they know I have the right* to ask for that and that I would be happier that way. > left off the Farmers estimate.. I imagine that they took photos of your > vehicle when > you were at their office, so you can call back and ask for someone to > review the > photos and add those on to the estimate as a supplement.. Yeah, I saw he had a camera, but actually the fellow never took any pictures. More evidence of his neglect. My guess is they'll tell me to drive 30 miles again, to have a $30 part added to the estimate. > However... you still have not found a good way to find the exact rental > replacement cost for a > 1995 M3... good luck there.... it sounds like you are willing to be > flexible here so that's cool... It sounds like this is the same problem we were having over the discussion of the diminished value. As Dennis Liu pointed out -- just because the exact value of a loss cannot be determined, I (or anyone else) am not *any less* entitled to compensation for that loss. The practical approach to this connudrum is to prepare an *estimate*, which I have done to the best of my ability, and I invite Farmers to give a more *accurate* one if they are able. > advice for you there, as it seems that the California laws won't > allow the Farmers > Insurance attorneys to come in there and stomp you into the ground > by making you > prove that the bumper needs to be replaced, that the $70/hour > repair rate is justified, > and also prove up your rental costs for a 1995 M3! Since all > that won't happen, the > small claims court (and a sympathetic judge or jury) may actually > be your best weapon... Exactly -- stomp me to the ground, implying unfair bullying and misuse of their legal department's size and strength. Assuming I actually had a considerable financial loss at stake here, you bet I would hire my own equally competent legal defense and I think I have a good case. - - John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:13:31 -0700 From: Steve Albrecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] SI Reset Instructions The latest Roundel tech tips section has a procedure for resetting the SI lights without using a tool. I tried it on my 2000 540i and it worked perfectly. I'll repeat the instructions here for those of you that don't get the Roundel. See what you're missing by not joining the CCA! � Ignition key in OFF position � Press and hold the trip odometer reset button and turn the key to the accessory position � Keep the reset button pressed for 5 more seconds until 'Oil Service', 'Inspection', or 'Reset' appears. � Press the button again for 5 more seconds until the message flashes. � While the message is flashing, press the button again briefly to reset the SI. � Successful reset of the SI will display 'End SIA' for about 2 seconds. Steve Albrecht Cupertino, CA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:23:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Andre Yew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] I'm BAAACK 540i/6 On Thu, 28 Aug 2003, Dennis Wynne wrote: > Do you know if the BT kit will work with slightly older (MY2001) E39 cars? Dennis, I believe it's 2002 and later. The earlier cars are retrofitable, but it takes considerably more time and expense. A recent Roundel (July?) had a good writeup on this. Bimmerfest.com has also had some discussions on this. - --Andre ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 15:49:39 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] re: labor rates/was someone hit my car Curt, re: >Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 13:21:04 -0700 (PDT) >From: "Curtis A. Ingraham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: re: [uuc] labor rates/was someone hit my car <snip> >I am aware of Bay Area BMW dealers that charge at and above the labor >rates Barry asserts. These service departments can have 2-3 week >waiting times for appointments. Aside from warranty work, which is >presumably paid for by BMW NA, customers are free to go to the many >good independent shops in the area. Yet the dealers' phones keep >ringing, so why would they be motivated to charge less? Here are a few of reasons why people continue to go to the dealer, despite the high prices: 1. Owners are under the mistaken impression that they must use the dealer in order to keep their warranty in effect. Truth is, while the factory's recommended procedures and the "equivalent" of their parts must be used, cars under warranty do not need to be serviced or repaired at the dealer to keep the warranty in effect. 2. Owners who know that they don't HAVE to go to the dealer do so anyway because it is easier than proving that someone else's procedures match the dealer's, or that the parts are in fact equivalent. 3. Owners are taking the car to the dealer for warranty work, and it is just easier to have paid work done at the same time than to schedule a second appointment somewhere else. 4. BMW NA's practices of having dealers use proprietary test equipment and either withholding or charging for service info, etc., have made it difficult for owners to find independent shops who actually CAN service the cars per factory procedures. I could go on, but who would actually read it? A better educated, more knowledgeable public (like you find with BMW CCA members, for example) would take better advantage of competitive alternatives. THEN you might see dealer service prices come down. But you're right, if they're not lacking for customers, dealers will continue to charge high prices. <snip> >Curt Ingraham >72 2002tii >Oakland, CA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:57:01 -0400 From: "Stan Jackson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] E30 Rear Diff Bushing Part Numbers Wondering if someone could check on this for me. One of the following two parts has presumably superceded the other. Which is the old part and which is the new part? They are both rear diff bushings for the E30. Sorry, I don't have complete part numbers. 1134 802 1128 492 Thanks, Stan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:39:54 -0500 From: Mark and Heather Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Someone hit my BMW! - what price should the insurance pay ? > > Dennis Wynne wrote: > Just curious, I know it is "legit" to tell the insurance company that > you want your favorite body shop to fix your car. Quite often they charge > more than what the insurance WANTS to pay - but you sort of say "you two > work it out, just fix my car". > > But, if your favorite shop wants $1255 and the insurance company wants > to pay $683 - do you have a "right" to make them pay you $1255 IF you > do not get the car repaired? I am no longer saying it is "wrong" to > try to get this money, just wondering what is legal (or common practice). > > Basically, I would feel justified and right getting a nice shop to do the > repairs no matter how much more it cost VS the insurance estimate. I just > don't think you could collect that same (possibly inflated?) number if > you don't get the work done at that place. > > Dennis > 330i silver/black/manual/sp/pp/xenon/cd Dennis, I had a similar scenario today... Let's change the names a little bit to make it more uucdigest specific... Joe Policyholder has a 2002 BMW M3 and swerves to avoid an animal and goes off the road in Lamesa (read: BFE) Texas... He has a local shop try and work on the vehicle on a Sunday.. and they cannot fix it and they get a part in on Monday and they charge him 4.5 hrs labor to replace the part ( a suspension control arm) and they charge him $540 (!) for the part... and the shop mounts a used 18" tire to get him going.. Joe Policyholder then turns in a claim and presents the bill to his insurance company for his temporary repairs and the remaining repairs... The estimator calls up the part price of the control arm and the price is $138 (DOH!) and the time to replace it is .8 hrs....( DOH! again) Obviously, Joe Policyholder got bent over BIG TIME by the shop in BFE... But what should the insurance company pay? Maybe there should be some consideration for the fact that he was in a small town, but should the insurance company foot the entire bill at more than five times the regular price because Joe Policyholder either a) got snookered or; b) did not care about the price and just flashed his VISA thinking that his insurance company should pay the cost, whatever the price may be....? The funny thing about this, is that probably EVERYONE on this list wouild say, that the insurance company should pay the entire bill if it was their vehicle... yet EVERY one of those same people would complain about their insurance rates being way too high the next time someone posts a horror story about their claim was handled..... Sorry people but you can't have it both ways... Claims personnel are always caught in the middle of these scenarios... but for everyone of these where you the insurance company over pays (in order to be a " good neighbor", or to keep you in "good hands" or be " on your side" you just inched up the rates for all the other policyholders in the company... As Jack Nicholdson once said.. You want me on that wall... You NEED me on that wall..!!! Mark Williams Dallas, TX I bet you guys really want to know what I paid don't ya.... :-) ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6711 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . 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