[uucdigest] Friday, September 12 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6740
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] M3 CSL [uuc] Re: FS or TRADE: 3.15 LSD from 95 M3 5sp [uuc] <e36> Rear Suspension Fix Update RE: [uuc] FREE OEM BMW Wheel Chocks RE: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? [uuc] [E36 M3] Labor for replacing a cylinder head RE: [uuc] [E36 M3] Labor for replacing a cylinder head Re: [uuc] [E36 M3] Labor for replacing a cylinder head RE: [uuc] [E36 M3] Labor for replacing a cylinder head RE: [uuc] [E36 M3] Labor for replacing a cylinder head Re: [uuc] M3 CSL ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:03:27 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [uuc] M3 CSL > I find it interesting that Dinan is apparently able to > get more power out of the same engine (with no > internal modifications) than BMW ///M is able to > get. Huh? Come on Ben. BMW M knows 1000 times more about engines than Steve Dinans whole crew. Dinan makes Excellent products, but don't find this interesting. You may be assuming that BMW puts out the best it's got at the time for the M cars. Jon - ----- Original Message ----- From: "ben keyes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [uuc] M3 CSL > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Dinan's web site lists the S2 M2 thusly: > > > > HP 361 [EMAIL PROTECTED] RPM vs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Torque 282 [EMAIL PROTECTED] RPM vs [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I find it interesting that Dinan is apparently able to > get more power out of the same engine (with no > internal modifications) than BMW ///M is able to > get. and still have the engine meet CARB certification. > I know BMW may make compromises with > tuning that Dinan doesn't take (tho Dinan still have > a warranty to consider, so they can't tune grenades > and sell them) would tend to force the factory into > a lower power figure, but I don't believe that Dinan > is _that_ good. > > I'd like to see someone with their car before & after > these mods who demonstrates the improved power > & torque results. > > I bet that most all of the on-road performance advantage > of the S2 is due to the change in the diff, which would > improve acceleration to a great degree, rather than anything > particularily magic that they do with the engine. > > > > Ben ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 01:23:14 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] Re: FS or TRADE: 3.15 LSD from 95 M3 5sp The 3.38LSD differential can be found on all OBD2 E36 automatic M3's. A used one usually sells for $700-$1000. A 3.46LSD has to be custom made using different ring and pinions. Our resident guru, Brett Anderson at KMS can make them for you but be prepared to pay over $2,000 for a setup with 40% lockup. I believe Brett will give you a credit for your core as long as its in good shape. Give Brett or differential master, Jim Blanton a buzz. Dan Wang "David DeBord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Subject: [uuc] FS or TRADE: 3.15 LSD from 95 M3 5sp > > I am looking for 3.38 or 3.46 LSD. Lemme know if you want > to buy, sell, or > trade. > thanks > d ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:41:17 -0700 From: "Clan Hood-Douda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] <e36> Rear Suspension Fix Update A few weeks (months?) back, I posted a symptom about the rear suspension response on our '95 325i. The symptom was a looseness in the rear as I turned a corner and went over a tarmac joint: it felt like the car's rear was stepping to the outside of the turn. Thanks to many kind responses from this list, I tackled replacing the rear trailing arm bushings using the tools rented from Brett Anderson. (Thanks for the patience and support Brett!). I used the 96+ M3 RTABs with the Ground Control Enforcers (Delrin spacers to fit along side the bushings in the bushing mount). After a good four wheel alignment, where they actually adjusted the rear camber and toe, it was time for a road test. The results are phenomenal. It now tracks even better than I can remember it brand new. Thanks again, Mike - --------------------------------------- Clan Hood-Douda - Arcadia Farm Lacomb, Oregon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 06:33:53 -0400 From: "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] FREE OEM BMW Wheel Chocks I'll take all three. Just hit me off-line on the details and I'll send you the money. Thanks, David - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin Kelly Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 1:05 AM To: BMW BMW BMW BMW Subject: [uuc] FREE OEM BMW Wheel Chocks I was hunting for something in my parents basement and I found a box of random car stuff that I have not seen for at least 10 years including three black metal OEM BMW Wheel Chocks from an E21, E24 or E28. Before I throw the wheel chocks out I thought I would offer them to people on the list for FREE. You can pick them up in San Francisco or Marin or if you send me $3.85 each for postage I'll mail them anywhere in the U.S. via Priority Mail (one will just fit in to a USPS Flat Rate Priority Mail envelope). Kevin Kelly BMW CCA 50039 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 08:36:21 -0400 From: "Chris Baker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? There is something very similar that goes on in the OEM supplier world, only worse. Most of the OEM's (U.S. anyway) require "long term agreements", which only means that you lower the price X% every year, not that you are guaranteed the business for any amount of time. Most of the tier one suppliers demand the same thing. So how do you get there? Well, you raise the initial price of course. Metaldyne has stated to me that they require a 6% price reduction every year for four years. Where the hell do they think that money will come from? These supposedly intelligent accountants have fooled themselves into believing they are getting valuable price reductions, when in reality they are paying premiums. But everything's going to China now, so it won't make any difference in a few years. Chris B. - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rob Levinson Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 12:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? - ---- Original Message ---- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? >Rob: >From the business point of view, is there _no_ >advantage to the CCA membership? Your mail indicates >not, but I thought I'd ask specifically. How do you >think it came about? <snip> Think about basic business; a vendor needs to make X% just to stay in business. He _will_ make that, and the customers _must_ pay it if the business relationship is to continue beyond short-term unprofitable product turn-over, otherwise the business fails and the customers lose that resource. If artificially high prices are required to satisfy the customer who expects a discount, then that is what happens - and in the end, the customer pays the same price, the vendor earns his X%, and everybody has played a game. Get rid of the game and build a relationship of trust and value. Think about it... it's like the shops that have "SPECIAL SALE!!!" ads screaming all the time, when nobody has ever bought at "regular" price. That's calling us, the customers, total idiots... with a smile. Same thing with "FREE SHIPPING!"... it's not free, it's built into the price, yet the customer is duped into thinking a special opportunity has become available. Would you rather deal with the vendor who is smirking at you because he is winning a game, or with with the vendor who is happy to help you as much as possible because his business is viable through the mutually-beneficial relationship he has with you? In simpler terms, the former are the crooks and the latter are the good guys. <snip> - - Rob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:27:00 -0400 From: "Andrew E. Skopp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] [E36 M3] Labor for replacing a cylinder head Dealer is quoting me $1780 in labor to remove and reinstall the cylinder head for my 98 M3. (Parts by the way are the head, the headbolts, a gasket kit, and spark plugs, totalling $3009.) I'm not sure of the dealer's hourly rate, but I believe it's under $90. Even assuming it's $90, that's 20 hours of labor. Is this possible? Thanks for your thoughts. Andrew E. Skopp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:02:00 -0700 From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] [E36 M3] Labor for replacing a cylinder head Are they just installing a new head or all the bits and pieces in the head too. I'm assuming they need to transfer your cams, springs and valves from your old head to the new head? If so then it's not outlandish. If they were just replacing a head gasket then it's a bit much. Why are you doing this? Just curious. Perfect time to put in new cams ;-) Marco - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andrew E. Skopp Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 6:27 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [uuc] [E36 M3] Labor for replacing a cylinder head Dealer is quoting me $1780 in labor to remove and reinstall the cylinder head for my 98 M3. (Parts by the way are the head, the headbolts, a gasket kit, and spark plugs, totalling $3009.) I'm not sure of the dealer's hourly rate, but I believe it's under $90. Even assuming it's $90, that's 20 hours of labor. Is this possible? Thanks for your thoughts. Andrew E. Skopp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:14:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Daniels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] [E36 M3] Labor for replacing a cylinder head Sounds like straight book time. But I have seen guys do it in half that time if they are experienced. Maybe you should find a shop that charges that was instead. Yes, blah , blah, blah, hard to find, blah, blah shops have the right...J.M.O. but the sounds like a LOT. Let the mechanics flame away. Jason - --- "Andrew E. Skopp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dealer is quoting me $1780 in labor to remove and > reinstall the cylinder head for my 98 M3. (Parts by > the way are the head, the headbolts, a gasket kit, > and spark plugs, totalling $3009.) > > I'm not sure of the dealer's hourly rate, but I > believe it's under $90. Even assuming it's $90, > that's 20 hours of labor. Is this possible? Thanks > for your thoughts. > > Andrew E. Skopp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:16:37 -0400 From: "KMS - Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] [E36 M3] Labor for replacing a cylinder head They're doing you a huge favour if the cylinder head you're buying is not complete. BMW warranty time is just under 32.5 hours to remove and install cylinder head, plus dismantle and assemble cylinder head. If the cylinder head they are supplying is fully assembled (won't be if it's coming from BMW) then the warranty time is around 15 hours. Most dealers charge 1.5x warranty time for customer pay work, as BMW often under estimates the times they pay. Brett Anderson KMS > -----Original Message----- > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andrew E. Skopp > Dealer is quoting me $1780 in labor to remove and reinstall the > cylinder head for my 98 M3. (Parts by the way are the head, the > headbolts, a gasket kit, and spark plugs, totalling $3009.) > I'm not sure of the dealer's hourly rate, but I believe it's > under $90. Even assuming it's $90, that's 20 hours of labor. Is > this possible? Thanks for your thoughts. ____________________________________ 100% Spam Control by SpamEnder Free Download and Trial http://www.spamender.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 07:38:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Daniels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] [E36 M3] Labor for replacing a cylinder head I didn't think about the R&R of the cams and the like. Most of the head work I have done is replacing old garbage with all new stuff. Sorry about that. If this is the case Brett is right. Jason - --- KMS - Brett Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > They're doing you a huge favour if the cylinder head > you're buying is not > complete. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:40:45 -0400 From: ben keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] M3 CSL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I find it interesting that Dinan is apparently able to > > get more power out of the same engine (with no > > internal modifications) than BMW ///M is able to > > get. > > Huh? > > Come on Ben. BMW M knows 1000 times more > about engines than Steve Dinan's whole crew. true. > Dinan makes Excellent products, but don't find this interesting. by interesting I should have said suspect. I'm not sure I believe the numbers completely, thus my interest in seeing someone who has done before/after on their own car _not_ on Dinan's dyno. > You may be assuming that BMW puts out the best it's > got at the time for the M cars. you don't think they're building the motor for the CSL to as near to the edge as they can make it ? the the reliability problems they've had with M3's might tend to lead on to assume that they're a bit more conservative than they might otherwise be. given that they need to compete (on some level, certainly not in terms of ultimate performance but in terms of the image of the vehicle) with 911's & other factory lightweight/ hot rod vehicles you'd think they're throwing pretty much everything at it that they can handle. which begs the question of why no big brakes on the car... as compared to the unique motor used in the GT3 and the long list of heavily revised parts used on the Stradale, the CSL's revised aero package, revised intake, suspension changes, suede/CF interior trim and CF bodywork while retaining the stock brakes (no ceramic option for the M3) and no factory roll cage the is definitely not as hard core as the 911 & Ferrari. hell, it's not even as hard core as the STi Spec-C Type RA, which can be ordered nearly completely stripped and race ready. maybe the CSL is best viewed as a cynical marketing ploy without direct connection to any real racing. other than the CF structural changes to the body, there isn't anything in particular that couldn't (and hasn't) been duplicated by the aftermarket. tho there's also something to be said for a factory-approved suite of upgrades backed by a manufacturer's warranty as well. of course that's one argument for the Dinan stuff in the first place... Ben sticking with the hard core from the factory Japanese option at 60% of the cost of a stock M3... ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6740 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | |==================================================== | Turner Motorsport Inc . 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