[uucdigest] Friday, September 12 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6743
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: RE: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? <communist rants> RE: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? re: Subject: [uuc] E30 strut help! [uuc] Re: [bmwe39] Inspection 2 price - O2 sensor prices Re: [uuc] GT40 (OT) RE: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? <communist rants> Re: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? <communist rants> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:01:22 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? <communist rants> "Jamie Howton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Think about it the next time you are shopping at Wal-Mart, Kmart, > Costco, Home Depot -- you are happily facilitating the demise of > US manufacturing and are damn proud that you got a bargain. > It's true, you did, but at whose expense. At the expense of the less efficient manufacturers. Given that your own livelihood is at stake you probably do not want to admit this, but if Chinese can manufacture something for 1/2 the price that is only 2/3 as good, the capitalist market place will go with the Chinese substitutes. The same holds for professional fields. If an offshore software development or engineering firm can do your job 2/3 as well but for 1/2 the price, guess where the firm will sub-contract the project? That's capitalism for you. If you don't like it, I suggest you look up communism and if necessary, vote with your feet. > Unfortunately, not all of the BMW parts suppliers take the same > tack that Rob and Brett seem to take of charging fair prices > from the get-go. There is no such thing as a 'fair' price. There is only one price that the market place will bear. If you can sell your product at a decent profit at that price, good for you. If not, good for the guy who can. Nothing personal. "Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Anybody notice that phone service has gotten progressively worse > since the mid-'80s? Not really. I think it's gotten better and certainly a LOT less expensive! > Wonder if that has to do with the dismantling of a comfortably > profitable Ma Bell that could afford to service the customers and > equipment... It doesn't. And if you want a first-hand insight into the telecom industry, Ma'Bell was a text book example what could have gone wrong with a government-regulated monopoly: bloated, inefficient, technologically stagnant firm with poor service. We'll leave it up to another thread (or offline discussion) to debate pro's and con's of governments' attempts to regulate natural monopolies. "Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > As Jamie Howton suggested in his previous post, it's the "bargain > > hunters" whose goal is not the product/service, but rather to have > > the perception of "winning the game" that simultaneously drives > > down costs _and_ quality for the rest of us. > > "Ed MacVaugh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I do not go with a seller of parts for advice or technical support. > I wouldn't trust the answer, for the seller has a distinct advantage > in pushing his wares. Amen to that! I see far too many uncompetitive businesses complaining about 'stupid price sensitive customers'. Small hint: if the customers are overlooking your 'service' for silly price considerations, than you just might be kidding yourself as to the true value of service you are providing! alex f ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:21:09 -0500 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > There is quite a bit of business moving to China, but in some cases > without realization that the hidden cost of palm grease and "special > favors" are waiting to bite the ignorant accountant. Very true. It's a big problem all over the world. Especially in the third world countries that have not adopted the "campaign contributions" euphemism. alex f ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:41:50 -0700 From: jkerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: re: Subject: [uuc] E30 strut help! re: Subject: [uuc] E30 strut help! Use a propane torch to soften or melt the plastic ring in the self locking nut. A visegrip ot the top of the strut shaft just below the spring perch will give you additional grip if needed. _____Wrap a rag around the shaft before you squeeze the vise grip onto it. I guess you didn't know about the tip that say to remove or at least loosen the nuts with car still sitting on its tires on the ground. Wrap hangar wire at four points around the spring. Then as you raise the car with a jack, the springs and struts drop away from the upper mount. To reassemble, use the compressor to compress the spring, tehn tie hanger wire, six clothes hangers worth, around the coils, so the spring stays short during assembly. Tehn one the strut is back on the car, cut the hanger wire and pull the cut pieces out. Spraying silicon spray on the rubber spring spacers will help ease the wire as it slides out between the spring coil and the rubber spacer. Not standard, but been doing it this way for 20 years. Quickest and easiest way to drops struts and springs if you're not all set up in a shop with air tools and the special factory gadgets. Good luck, 'jk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:52:46 -0500 From: "Ben White" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: [bmwe39] Inspection 2 price - O2 sensor prices George's experience recounted below is sadly all too typical. BMW NA spends tons of money advertising and sponsoring customer satisfaction surveys in efforts to secure conquest customers and improve customer relations. Too many dealers (not all) manage to rig the survey results and pull stunts like this. I have no problem with a retailer charging fair prices but I know of dealers (BMW and others) who greedily mark parts up substantially from MSRP. This practice undermines the manufacturers efforts to bring them business. It's no wonder that automobile dealers in general get such a bad rap. Best, Ben White/Ocean Springs, MS - ----- Original Message ----- From: Dombroske, George <snip> You asked about oxygen sensors. My local dealer wanted hundreds of dollars for the parts, but I found the same Bosch part for about $60 each from one of the on-line parts purveyors (eurowebparts.com, alloembmwparts.com, or one of the others - don't remember which one right now). Yet another trivially easy job that would have cost me a small fortune in parts and labor if I had hired the $tealer to do it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:12:01 -0400 From: Ed MacVaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] GT40 (OT) I don't know if I would trust that source. I have met many GT-40 drivers and stood next to a few of them. Not a one was only 5 feet tall. Ed ben keyes wrote: >here's one which notes the 18" longer & 4" taller : >http://www.nzmustang.com/NewMustangs/newgt40.htm >it refers to the show car, but the production one is >nearly identical in overall size, just lots of small detail >changes. > > > >Ben > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:18:45 -0500 From: "Jamie Howton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? <communist rants> > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <SNIP> > At the expense of the less efficient manufacturers. Given > that your own > livelihood is at stake you probably do not want to admit this, but if > Chinese can manufacture something for 1/2 the price that is > only 2/3 as <SNIP> The fact that I am not likely to agree with you here has nothing to do with my livelyhood "being at stake" as you suggest, it has more to do with the fact that I think that you are wrong. You seem to think that there is some kind of parity betweeen US and Chinese manufacturers in the way that business is conducted. You are wrong. I do compete with the Chinese in some markets, I ship parts to Hong Kong, Singapore and Malaysia and I am very familiar with the way that business is conducted. Contracts are usually awarded based upon bribes, kickbacks and payouts all of which are illegal business practices in this country. No environmental controls are employed wahtsoever. No human rights issues are even considered. Very frequently vendors are not paid, ever. That's how they beat us, not by being more efficient as you seem to believe. > That's capitalism for you. > If you don't like it, I suggest you look up communism and if > necessary, > vote with your feet. > Ok Alex I'll take your advice. I am sure I can do something to be more competitive against the obviously more efficient Chinese manufacturers. Let's see as of now each of my 45 employees will only be paid $0.37 per day to maintain parity with our Chinese competition. Hmm what else can I do, instead of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars per year to make sure that my company doesn't pollute the environment I'll just start discharging untreated waste into the air and water, that'll help to level the playing field too. Forget about taxes, I'm not paying them and while we're at it no more unemployment compensation insurance, or health insurance or vacations. What else, OSHA, forget about it, if a few employees get hurt or killed along the way we'll just hire some more. Or how about this, I join all of the other Walmart suppliers by firing all of my employees and building a plant in China, things will be fair then won't they. What you are referring to as "Communism" is the age old discussion about unfair trade practices. The Chinese system is communist, most of the companies are state owned, funded and subsidized. Wage rates are held at an artificially low level by the Communist government and there are no employee benefits, employee safety or pollution controls. It's not capitalism at all. It's American companies trying to compete in a capitalist sytem against communist governments who aren't even on the same playing field as far as being good corporate citizens. So when your son or daughter can't find a job because there aren't any left in this country you can tell them to vote with their feet and move to Pakistan so that they can work in a tech support call center for $0.50 per day. Nothing personal. Jamie Howton 2002 330i 1995 M3 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:27:22 -0400 From: "Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] CCA Discounts for Businesses? <communist rants> I fell that's an incomplete view. From an insider's viewpoint in a variety of industries affected by "aggressive savingsism" over the past fifteen years, I can honestly say that the entire retail world is turning into a Wal-Mart Sunday circular - bright picture of product, low price, try asking for help from the pimply-faced stock clerk (which you can't even do when ordering from a phone-less website), and disposable quality levels. Effectively, buying junk. This drives efforts by unsavory vendors to "trick" customers with misleading advertising or even shoddier workmanship, and kills off the few publicly-accessible knowledge resources. More and more, there is less incentive to offer service with a product. Take BMW maintenance parts for example - if the customer is happy with buying the parts at the cheapest price, then they have no right to be surprised when an installer has a two-tier installation rate. $90/hour if they supply the parts, $110/hour if customer-supplied, and no warranty on work offered as parts may be suspect. Those are solid numbers I got from a very respectable vendor just this very afternoon. So in the end, customer paid the same (or more) and did nothing other than hurt himself. And, do we have to re-hash the spate of "bogus" products, or "seconds" being foisted as first-quality OEM? Push the retailers, and desperate measures like that are taken by the opportunists. There is such a thing as "fair" pricing. At the manufacturing level, it is based on given known quantities of quality manufacturing in the country of your choice with relatively fixed costs of materials and fair labor rate (again, in the country of your choice). Efficiencies are always developed, but nevertheless you can't get blood from a stone. See, the "country of choice" thing is the big difference when we are talking in general about costs. With third-world labor rates so low, little if any expenses for environmental protection, and complete lack of labor or product insurance, there is no doubt that costs can be lower. Is Joe Saver comfortable knowing he is supporting a foreign economy, and not using American labor and manufacturing facilities? Too often, he is comfortable - until it comes time to decry the death of our manufacturing base and why the country is going to pot without a strong tax base. At the retail level, service and price are two opposite curves. The ultimate example of legitimate deep-discount pricing (as opposed to bait-and-switch below cost pricing with products that don't get shipped, but that's another story) is a blind website - no phone number, just a part number selection and credit card input. Often these places will bill you and then order the part. A margin of .5% is not uncommon, and heaven help you if there is a mistake. That kind of retail structure does drive out the parts guy down the street from you, who can help you whether or not you trust his ulterior motives. To add to my growing list of adages, "Ya get what you pay for" and "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". - - Rob - ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I see far too many uncompetitive businesses complaining about 'stupid > price sensitive customers'. > Small hint: if the customers are overlooking your 'service' for silly > price considerations, than you just might be kidding yourself as to the > true value of service you are providing! > > alex f > > ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6743 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | |==================================================== | Turner Motorsport Inc . The Ultra-High Performance BMW Specialist | 207 Elm Street, Amesbury, MA 01950 | 978-388-7769 / fax 978-388-4202 | http://www.turnermotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning | and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! | 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com |__________________________________________________________
