[uucdigest] Monday, September 15 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6753
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: Re: [uuc] anybody got a good sub-$9K 5-series or 7-series in or close to NJ? Re: [uuc] anybody got a good sub-$9K 5-series or 7-series in or close to NJ? Re: [uuc] Tire Patch Shape RE: [uuc] anybody got a good sub-$9K 5-series or 7-series in or close to NJ? [uuc] Re: anybody got a good sub-$9K 5-series [uuc] <E36> M3 Tire Size Options Re: [uuc] Tire Patch Shape Re: [uuc] Re: tire patch shape Re: [uuc] <E36> M3 Tire Size Options [uuc] Argh. Brake light on E39 2000 528iT ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:08:07 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] anybody got a good sub-$9K 5-series or 7-series in or close to NJ? It was a bit rough - sorry- no permanent harm intended, besides, Rob is tough. Gary Derian > Jeez Gary. That's a bit rough. The clients could be "johns". > > Anyway, he could always put a set of those cool "spinning" wheels on it. > Those things sure impress me. > > Matter of fact he wouldn't even need to buy real $2000 spinning wheels. He > could go to Kragen and buy "spinning wheel" hubcaps. I'm not kidding. > > Marco > amazed at the crap I see on cars today. Bling Bling ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:59:55 -0700 From: Kurt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] anybody got a good sub-$9K 5-series or 7-series in or close to NJ? Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks wrote: >It's actually she (not that you could have known), and she does custom interior >and kitchen design. I think the sad truth is that a lot of people don't know >the difference between an E32, E34, or E39 as long as it looks clean - if it >looks clean, it looks new, and it looks BMW. The public is not tuned in to the >variations and updates like we are. > This is so true. I can't tell you how many times I've heard people say in an impressed tone "Oh, you drive a BMW!" when looking at my wife's '89 535i (E34). They look at me a little funny when I say, "Yeah, and when I bought it seven years ago, it cost me about 1/2 of what you just paid for your nice new shiny Accord." Kurt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:20:49 -0400 From: "Stan Jackson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Tire Patch Shape So, in moderately simplistic terms: To maximize braking, you don't really care about the shape of the tire patch. To maximize cornering, you want a wide tire to reduce distortion of the footprint. This benefit would be reduced but still relevant on a tire with minimal tread (like an R-compound) or even a slick? Weight transfer and loss of available cornering force (due to the reverse torque of braking) occur under braking just as they do under acceleration. Maximization of acceleration should be the same as braking -- no effect from the shape of the tire patch. This is for "100%" acceleration and "100%" braking on a consistent surface (think of a dragstrip but let's leave out the dragsters and use a street car). Am I missing something? Stan Gary Derian replied: > Visualize the footprint moving forward. When rolling straight, a tread > element touches the front edge of the footprint and moves to the rear. When > cornering there is a slip angle. That tread element touches as before, but > now is deflected as it moves to the rear. As it deflects, it generates a > cornering force. As the slip angle increases, at some point, the tread > element begins sliding. In the front part of the footprint, the tread > elements are building cornering, in the middle part, they are at peak, in > the rear part, they are sliding beyond peak. > > A long and narrow footprint can be bent into a crescent by these forces. A > short and wide footprint maintains its shape and gets all the tread elements > to work together. > > Braking works well either way. > > Acceleration is far more complex as there are several conflicting factors. > Weight transfer to the rear increases rear traction. Added torque to the > rear decreases the traction available for cornering. The action of the > limited slip causes power understeer or power oversteer at various times. > > In general, cars with more weight to the rear, and more power benefit by > larger rear tires. > > Gary Derian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:22:36 -0400 From: "Chris Baker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] anybody got a good sub-$9K 5-series or 7-series in or close to NJ? No question. When my wife worked for Chrysler I drove her employee lease vehicle - $25k or so Intrepid. Never heard a word. When she quit and I got to pick my next car, I picked up the '94 325i (this was in 2000) for about $16K. All of a sudden I was being constantly told how I must be making too much money, being a BMW driver and all. Chris B. - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 12:39 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [uuc] anybody got a good sub-$9K 5-series or 7-series in or close to NJ? It's actually she (not that you could have known), and she does custom interior and kitchen design. I think the sad truth is that a lot of people don't know the difference between an E32, E34, or E39 as long as it looks clean - if it looks clean, it looks new, and it looks BMW. The public is not tuned in to the variations and updates like we are. The whole idea seems to be to mid-level impress, and to show up in something a little nice than the family minivan. - - Rob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:33:03 -0700 (PDT) From: david kroth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Re: anybody got a good sub-$9K 5-series No matter what you buy, if you want to impress someone, make sure the car is CLEAN. Really CLEAN. If you climb into a year old 7 series and there are black fingerprints on the door handles and a grey film on the windows are you going to be impressed? ===== David Kroth [EMAIL PROTECTED] __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:37:01 -0500 From: "Paul Craven" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] <E36> M3 Tire Size Options Hello, I realize that what brand/maodel of tire is best has been discussed to death, but I would like to hear from fellow listers that have tried non-stock tire sizes on otherwise stock cars. I have a 97 M3 4 door with the staggered M contour wheels and was curious what other size tires might fit. My car is a daily driver and may see some incidental snow use (I have a snow vehicle, but have been caught out before) and I am having trouble finding an all around tire that is affordable in the stock sizes. Is a 235/45/17 a good choice? What about 255 on the back or? I have the michelin pilot sports now, and they work well, but I'm not sure how winter will be... As a side note, I am constantly amazed at the depth of knowledge on this list. The recent economics discussion was interesting even if it did not break any new ground. Thanks, Paul Craven 97 ///M3/4 - not quite ready for winter Many former bimmers (2 7s, 5 5s, and 3 3s, I guess I need 5 more 7s to make it even) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:39:57 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Tire Patch Shape That is basically it. For extreme acceleration, say wrinkle wall slicks, long and narrow is a little easier to maintain a good footprint. Gary Derian > So, in moderately simplistic terms: > > To maximize braking, you don't really care about the shape of the tire > patch. > > To maximize cornering, you want a wide tire to reduce distortion of the > footprint. > This benefit would be reduced but still relevant on a tire with minimal > tread (like an R-compound) or even a slick? > > Weight transfer and loss of available cornering force (due to the reverse > torque of braking) occur under braking just as they do under acceleration. > Maximization of acceleration should be the same as braking -- no effect from > the shape of the tire patch. This is for "100%" acceleration and "100%" > braking on a consistent surface (think of a dragstrip but let's leave out > the dragsters and use a street car). Am I missing something? > > Stan > > > > Gary Derian replied: > > Visualize the footprint moving forward. When rolling straight, a tread > > element touches the front edge of the footprint and moves to the rear. > When > > cornering there is a slip angle. That tread element touches as before, > but > > now is deflected as it moves to the rear. As it deflects, it generates a > > cornering force. As the slip angle increases, at some point, the tread > > element begins sliding. In the front part of the footprint, the tread > > elements are building cornering, in the middle part, they are at peak, in > > the rear part, they are sliding beyond peak. > > > > A long and narrow footprint can be bent into a crescent by these forces. > A > > short and wide footprint maintains its shape and gets all the tread > elements > > to work together. > > > > Braking works well either way. > > > > Acceleration is far more complex as there are several conflicting factors. > > Weight transfer to the rear increases rear traction. Added torque to the > > rear decreases the traction available for cornering. The action of the > > limited slip causes power understeer or power oversteer at various times. > > > > In general, cars with more weight to the rear, and more power benefit by > > larger rear tires. > > > > Gary Derian > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:37:19 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Re: tire patch shape For rain, a narrower tire has to 1) push water a shorter distance, and 2) has less water to push. For wide tires, the shortest water drain path is straight through the middle. For narrow tires, the shortest path is to the sides. Also, large tread blocks need to have a drain from the middle to the edge, say a V or U shape. For mud and snow, a narrow tire digs down to to the hard stuff. Gary Derian > Interesting topic. Thank you, Gary. > It's great to learn some of the principles behind what for me was only > intuitive. > And while we're on this, why is it that a long narrow footprint provides > better traction in snow and rain? > rss > > > > > >Visualize the footprint moving forward. When rolling straight, a tread > >element touches the front edge of the footprint and moves to the rear. > >When > >cornering there is a slip angle. That tread element touches as before, but > >now is deflected as it moves to the rear. As it deflects, it generates a > >cornering force. As the slip angle increases, at some point, the tread > >element begins sliding. In the front part of the footprint, the tread > >elements are building cornering, in the middle part, they are at peak, in > >the rear part, they are sliding beyond peak. > > > >A long and narrow footprint can be bent into a crescent by these forces. A > >short and wide footprint maintains its shape and gets all the tread > >elements > >to work together. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Use custom emotions -- try MSN Messenger 6.0! > http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_emoticon > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:21:57 -0400 From: ben keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] <E36> M3 Tire Size Options Pilot Sports SUCK in the cold/snow. I couldn't get the M coupe up my extremely slight driveway with a slight dusting of snow & it was a handful on very limited snow on the road. if you're ever going to drive the car on snow, you want something which is suited to it, NOT ZR-rated high perf summer tires. find one of the many tire circumference calculators on the web to ensure that you maintain something close to the stock size and preserve the F/R size relationship that the ABS computer & DSC (or is it ASC for the E36's? ) is expecting to see. using 225/45 as the control size : 245/40 = 1.1% smaller 255/40 = same 235/40 = 2.2% smaller 235/45 = 1% larger I dunno the degree to which the the ABS/ASC brains would care about differences in rotation of 1-2% between axles, I'm sure someone else will comment on whether that's significant or not. even if you're just going to drive the car in low winter temps, you might as well get a good set of snow tires for it (the wheels can double as track wheels as well :-) I like HR-rated snows because they don't completely destroy the feeling in the steering on my cars. you can just run 225/45's all around or even go narrower that that if you maintain the correct size relationship. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:27:42 -0400 From: "Dennis Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] Argh. Brake light on E39 2000 528iT Ok, as I wrote previously, the brake light lit up on my wife's 2000 528iT. Ordered a set of brake pads, and just changed the FRONT pads. Replaced the front brake sensor wire. Did NOT replace the rear pads, as they still have more than half thickness. Brake light remains lit on the dash. Unplugged and replugged the rear brake sensor wire. Light remains on. Do I need to "reset" the instrument panel light? Doesn't the brake warning light trigger when the wire grounds? Any help would be greatly appreciated! vty, - --Dennis ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6753 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . BMW technical information, special tool sales/rental | http://www.koalamotorsport.com | |==================================================== | | Taylor BMW - http://www.taylorbmw.com - Doc Bimmer! | |==================================================== | Turner Motorsport Inc . 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