[uucdigest] Friday, September 19 2003 Volume 03 : Number 6766
_________________________________________________________________ | | Search the ARCHIVES: | http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Visit Richard Nott's Ultimate BMW Database: | http://www.bmwdatabase.com | | For all available Digest commands including unsubscribe/subscribe, | visit the BMW UUC Digest page: http://www.uucdigest.com | | Send SUBMISSIONS to [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Complaints? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you must. | Technical Problems? Send 'em to [EMAIL PROTECTED] |__________________________________________________________________ In this BMW UUC Digest: [uuc] <FS> stock E28 M5 wheels Re: [uuc] Brakes at the track [uuc] E34 Brake Warning Fixed RE: [uuc] Minimum Brake Pad Thicknesses for Track Usage RE: [uuc] Minimum Brake Pad Thicknesses for Track Usage Re: [uuc] Brakes at the track [uuc] 73 911 for sale.. Price Lowered.. Re: [uuc] <e36> UUC Stage II Flywheel + M5 Clutch + USSE3 ? RE: [uuc] Brakes at the track ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 23:38:27 -0400 From: ben keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] <FS> stock E28 M5 wheels http://members.roadfly.com/m_ben/payam+all.jpg stock E28 M5 wheels, with center caps, very good condition more pics & details here : http://members.roadfly.com/m_ben/E28_M5/pm+set.htm $650 obo + actual shipping. Shipping runs between $40-$70, depending on whether you're closer (east of the Mississippi) or farther away (deep south, west coast) to 48220 (Detroit area). Ben ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 03:59:54 +0000 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [uuc] Brakes at the track willie yeo wrote: > I find changing pads easy but it is PITA to jack up > the car and take off the wheels to facilicate the > swap. As long as I'm swapping wheels/tires I might as well swap pads too... Actually I'll swap wheels/tires to leave the track, but I'll leave the track pads installed for the trip home (or to the hotel) overnight Friday and Saturday. That way I'm only swapping pads Friday morning and Sunday afternoon, though I eyeball them from time to time to be sure they've still got enough meat. Back to the original question: "enough meat" changes a lot. It varies with the track and the conditions and the car of course. I know our cars well enough, and I keep a close enough eye on them, that I know their normal rate of pad consumption during a weekend. At HPT I ran my aging front PF90s down almost to the backing plates because I wanted to use them up, and I was checking them often. (On Monday they were a great desk accessory at the office :-) If I didn't have that base of experience, I would only start a track weekend with a brand new (just bedded-in) set of pads. > Especially you do not own power tools and changing > them in a 90 degree day on paved asphalt parking lot. > Gingerman raceway is one of them. Try Heartland Park Topeka the last weekend of July, 100+ degrees with 90+% humidity. It's beastly hot. "Surface of the Sun" indeed! - -- Bob Sutterfield '?? E30 ///M3 ***in the hunt*** '87 E30 325iS *** FOR SALE *** '88 E28 535iS IHR FUNF '93 T4 EV MV Weekender BELUGA BMWCCA #169277 Rocky Mountain Chapter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 08:38:04 -0700 From: "Kevin Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] E34 Brake Warning Fixed A while back I posted for a friend that his OBC was giving him a license plate bulb failure warning (when the license plate lights still worked) and Brett and others e-mailed the list that the problem was probably a worn wire at the trunk hinge. My friend just got around to fixing the problem and sent me the e-mail below: "I just finished fixing the wires about an hour ago. The broken wire was right where Brett said to look by trunk hinge one wire was broken five more close. Everything works now. thanks for all the help." Like the inline E34 fuse that was posted yesterday I though some E34 owners may be interested in this problem so they can do some preventative maintenance. Kevin Kelly BMW CCA 50039 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:18:26 -0400 From: "Stan Jackson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Minimum Brake Pad Thicknesses for Track Usage I never thought of that (caliper piston seal damage). Interesting to note that I have never seen a caliper leak at the piston seal -- at least not enough for me to notice -- and I don't think it would take much to notice. It surprises me that I have not seen one, as I've run some pretty old, high mileage calipers. On the other hand, of the three cars that I have owned and driven extensively on the track, both E30's and perhaps the E36 too had damaged master cylinders. In one case I witnessed the immediate difference in the pedal before and after a pedal pumping brake bleed. $200 and some effort later I had a great pedal again ... I've never pumped the pedal since when bleeding! I actually wanted to upgrade the master cylinder anyway, but not quite then. BTW, the damaged master cylinder still functions, you just don't have as high and as firm a pedal. I suspect that a very large percentage of older E30's (and likely other models) have damaged master cylinders. The last time I shopped for an E30, I would say 50% or better had poor pedals that I believe were bad master cylinders. Admittedly, I was looking for a cheap (meaning high mileage) car that would be more likely to be damaged. What shocks me is that I don't see shops and dealers avoiding this problem by using a pressure bleeder. Some may, but plenty do not. Stan Kim Henshaw wrote: > > You're both almost right....... > > The most common cause of leaking calipers we see (we do around 100 brake > repairs a month) is age related deterioration of the piston seals or > rust pitting of the piston itself caused by infrequent fluid changes. > However, we do see some that are caused by the pads being so worn down > that the piston moves onto an area of the caliper bore that either has a > build up of sludge or some rust pitting. This causes small tears in the > seals and the fluid leaks out. While not common, it does happen and > seems much more likely when the disc rotor is also worn substantially. > > FWIW > > Kim Henshaw > > PS : This is the same problem that often occurs at the master cylinder > when bleeding brakes in the traditional "push the pedal to the floor > while I open/close the nipple" manner. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:21:49 -0400 From: "Stan Jackson Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Minimum Brake Pad Thicknesses for Track Usage > I have seen some guys run the backing plates down so far that they were > about 1/2 normal thickness. Amazing. Ha! That is nothing! I've welded a caliper piston to a backing plate! Literally! Wait .... maybe I should not be bragging about that ... Stan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 21:23:04 -0700 (PDT) From: willie yeo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] Brakes at the track I think it all depends on your driving skills or which running group you're in. If its your first few track days, its best to just swap in a full set of pads (especially the fronts) before you head for the track. This will allow time for you to learn about the track and catching rides with your instructor instead of working on your car during free time. If you happen to have a set of wheels with wide open spokes, it makes checking pad thickness a lot easier. I used to run SSR Integral which is lightweight and easy to clean. Though the wheels are no longer in production anymore. Will - --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > willie yeo wrote: > > I find changing pads easy but it is PITA to jack > up > > the car and take off the wheels to facilicate the > > swap. > > As long as I'm swapping wheels/tires I might as well > swap pads too... > > Actually I'll swap wheels/tires to leave the track, > but I'll > leave the track pads installed for the trip home (or > to the > hotel) overnight Friday and Saturday. That way I'm > only > swapping pads Friday morning and Sunday afternoon, > though > I eyeball them from time to time to be sure they've > still > got enough meat. > > Back to the original question: "enough meat" changes > a lot. > It varies with the track and the conditions and the > car of course. > I know our cars well enough, and I keep a close > enough eye on them, > that I know their normal rate of pad consumption > during a weekend. > At HPT I ran my aging front PF90s down almost to the > backing plates > because I wanted to use them up, and I was checking > them often. > (On Monday they were a great desk accessory at the > office :-) > If I didn't have that base of experience, I would > only start > a track weekend with a brand new (just bedded-in) > set of pads. > > > Especially you do not own power tools and changing > > them in a 90 degree day on paved asphalt parking > lot. > > Gingerman raceway is one of them. > > Try Heartland Park Topeka the last weekend of July, > 100+ degrees with 90+% humidity. It's beastly hot. > "Surface of the Sun" indeed! > -- > Bob Sutterfield > '?? E30 ///M3 ***in the hunt*** > '87 E30 325iS *** FOR SALE *** > '88 E28 535iS IHR FUNF > '93 T4 EV MV Weekender BELUGA > BMWCCA #169277 Rocky Mountain Chapter __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 01:32:34 -0400 From: "Ron J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [uuc] 73 911 for sale.. Price Lowered.. Hi All, I decided to lower the price of my 73 911 Coupe.. its got a 2.7 and is almost complete.. See my webpage regarding more info on the car.. www.geocities.com/tatsu911 Contact me if you are interested Cheers Ron J 73 911 (2.7) 85 535i "Freedom of the press is often reserved for those who own the presses" Michael Parenti. Ph.d Political Science Yale University. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:38:59 -0400 From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [uuc] <e36> UUC Stage II Flywheel + M5 Clutch + USSE3 ? It is highly suspect as the cause of the lurching. You may inspect it and find that it is the only part that needs changing. Its worth a try, although 123K on the original clutch it may be due anyway. Gary Derian > Are you saying that the flex disk is responsible for the apparent clutch > action? Or just reminding me to change it while I'm in there? > > I planned on changing it as part of the service. > > Mike > > > Flex disk. > > Gary Derian > > > > After the last round of cooling system and suspension refurbishing, > > next > up > > is the original clutch and dual-mass flywheel in our '95 325i. At 123K > > miles, the clutch is exhibiting hot "judders" or rough take up from a > > standing start. No slipping is evident, but the behavior makes it > difficult > > to drive smoothly in traffic. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:01:45 -0400 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [uuc] Brakes at the track Brakes are for p****ies!!! ;) I wouldn't really worry about it too much as factory pads are quite hard. I actually have 3 events & about 10 autocrosses on a set of crappy-a$$ metal masters (they stop the car reasonably well-just are missing the initial bite). I am brutal on brakes, most of my instructors comment on how deep I go into corners & that i brake later & harder than most. I guess the autocrossing really helped develop a sense of "threshold braking". Two of the tracks are known brake killers too, CMP & Sebring. BUT, the brakes are ducted to backing plates, and the car is reasonably light. I don't remember from the beginning of the thread what kind of car this is, but I would think you should be fine if you have more than half the thickness, especially if you're on street tires which can't put as much braking power to the ground. Unless you have, like a 4000lb car? I would put new pads in if it were me (because it's nice to have spares), but wouldn't worry too much if I didn't. I'd focus more on getting the hydraulics flushed & replaced with good stuff. I agree with the others that you generally want to avoid doing work at the track. I try to avoid everything but swapping tires & running the duct hose. We did have to replace at brake line at CMP which has a dirt paddock (although it does soak up spills rather nicely). It was about 40deg & raining--not much fun. To the original poster....have fun. Lee 88 M3->trying to get to go to the Panoz Track Days at Road Atl at the end of the month (have to escape Ohio first)--we'll see if 5+ hours there will finish off these pesky metal masters!!!! Even worse, after that I'm going with the autozone "lifetime" pads, being the cheap jerk I am!!!! > -----Original Message----- > From: willie yeo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 12:23 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [uuc] Brakes at the track > > > I think it all depends on your driving skills or which > running group you're in. If its your first few track > days, its best to just swap in a full set of pads > (especially the fronts) before you head for the track. > > > This will allow time for you to learn about the track > and catching rides with your instructor instead of > working on your car during free time. > > If you happen to have a set of wheels with wide open > spokes, it makes checking pad thickness a lot easier. > I used to run SSR Integral which is lightweight and > easy to clean. Though the wheels are no longer in > production anymore. > > Will > > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > willie yeo wrote: > > > I find changing pads easy but it is PITA to jack > > up > > > the car and take off the wheels to facilicate the > > > swap. > > > > As long as I'm swapping wheels/tires I might as well > > swap pads too... > > > > Actually I'll swap wheels/tires to leave the track, > > but I'll > > leave the track pads installed for the trip home (or > > to the > > hotel) overnight Friday and Saturday. That way I'm > > only > > swapping pads Friday morning and Sunday afternoon, > > though > > I eyeball them from time to time to be sure they've > > still > > got enough meat. > > > > Back to the original question: "enough meat" changes > > a lot. > > It varies with the track and the conditions and the > > car of course. > > I know our cars well enough, and I keep a close > > enough eye on them, > > that I know their normal rate of pad consumption > > during a weekend. > > At HPT I ran my aging front PF90s down almost to the > > backing plates > > because I wanted to use them up, and I was checking > > them often. > > (On Monday they were a great desk accessory at the > > office :-) > > If I didn't have that base of experience, I would > > only start > > a track weekend with a brand new (just bedded-in) > > set of pads. > > > > > Especially you do not own power tools and changing > > > them in a 90 degree day on paved asphalt parking > > lot. > > > Gingerman raceway is one of them. > > > > Try Heartland Park Topeka the last weekend of July, > > 100+ degrees with 90+% humidity. It's beastly hot. > > "Surface of the Sun" indeed! > > -- > > Bob Sutterfield > > '?? E30 ///M3 ***in the hunt*** > > '87 E30 325iS *** FOR SALE *** > > '88 E28 535iS IHR FUNF > > '93 T4 EV MV Weekender BELUGA > > BMWCCA #169277 Rocky Mountain Chapter > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > ------------------------------ End of [uucdigest] V3 #6766 *************************** | | In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. |________________________________________ | Please visit these UUC-approved BMW parts vendors/service providers: | (listed alphabetically) | | Autoscope-Motorsports - http://www.autoscope-motorsports.com | |==================================================== | | Koala MotorSport . 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