what I find interesting is, that everybody in these thread(s) around Sophie's mail is asking for balance. And let me add, I do too.
But what I could observe is, that independent of what is about in the daily work, is it coming to decision making or formulating a text or even just defining a reasonable and fair process to get such a result/decision/text, everybody is within his/her own frame and not much interested in getting a compromise/a consensus. Proposals for such "coming together", no matter from where they come, are often not enough "fitted" for the own interests (with some few exceptions which were very hard work to get) and getting questioned again and again in long and exhausting processes.
And that makes it hard to get results and even more it bounds our all time resources and motivation instead of doing other good things. And I am thankful, that Sophie was speaking up for one aspect of it, out of these bounded resources we all did not manage to use our really good status in/of TDF during the pandemic for helping, showing more solidarity with people who hit it a lot more than TDF or even community members of TDF, of which we sometimes do not know that they are suffering.
So, my personal conclusion of this is, we could become better if we all **really** value all sides of it more and show our respect to "the others" in more often acknowledging a compromise even if not all of the own interests are in it, or facilitating a consensus. Coding contributions is a critical part and nevertheless as well as all others like documentation, translation, marketing, quality assurance, local activities of the volunteers independent where, mentoring, certifying, organizing and maintain the infrastructure,...
We would not have these good status of our foundation during the pandemic when we did not have all of them. They are all intertwined and dependent on each other. And indeed, we should use this status more for doing good within the founders will.
It is never too late to do so.
Thank you all for your various contributions,
Lothar
Am 15.01.2022 um 17:26 schrieb sophi:
Hi Simon, all, Le 14/01/2022 à 19:14, Simon Phipps a écrit :Hi Sophie,I appreciate your comment here and (with some fear) have to respond to amplify it.Thank you for your support. You amplified more than my initial thoughts which were only about solidarity, altruism and generosity.On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 11:14 AM sophi <so...@libreoffice.org> wrote:On my point of view, it was not about achieving market dominance but about solidarity. And TDF has failed here, again on my point of view.Yes, I have to agree with you. Freedom, equality and solidarity used to be the norm at TDF.> Over the last couple of years that has largely ended at the Foundation level (fortunately our community still has many parts where this is not true). This has led to progress grinding to a halt through mistrust. For example, both TDC and LOOL were ended just at the point where the external conditions suggested they were going to flourish. Little has been achieved in their place as you observe, and as the tired bickering in this thread illustrates.I don't want to go back in these stories of TDC and LOOL again but they are two very different situations for me. What I can agree with you is that both have damaged the community's confidence in what is TDF and what it should represent. I've read all the minutes of the board meetings, attended several of these meetings, and I can say this board has took several actions during this two very difficult years without having a chance to meet. My mail was not to address reproaches to the board, but a reaction to what Thorsten and Michael said on the pandemic period.Egalitarianism was replaced by turning inwards to fight unproductively among those privileged to be allowed information - and in the process to slander those involved before. As a result of this the Foundation has turned even more closed, with Board inflighting leaving the Trustees in the dark while the arguments went on. There has consequently been no spirit of solidarity to harness to do good outside the project. As you say, that is tragic, and I really appreciate your observation of it.Well that's not exactly what I said, and in my opinion the board was more open to discussions than some years before. But I agree with you that even arguments should be more transparent and the community should be aware when things are going worse.If TDF is to satisfy its mission this has to stop. The new Board has a huge opportunity and responsibility to put all this behind them and lead positively. It must shun divisiveness and seek ways to rekindle solidarity by emphasizing equality and promoting freedom. This will not be done treating the motivations of some participants as suspect! In fact almost everyone is pursuing an "interest", almost by definition in a collaborative community!Yes and I really appreciate the tools provided by the MC to rebuild trust.As Maslow <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs> observed, before higher-level behaviours can be cultivated, basic needs must be met - especially belonging and esteem. The Foundation needs to be more inclusive of all its trustees in its processes rather than just consulting them for votes once every two years. It needs to be realistic about the pragmatics of large-scale software engineering and how it's paid for and rein-in those trying to frame "commercial" as tainted. It has to seek ways to encourage both community and commercial activities inside its "umbrella" rather than treating some as clean and some as unclean.This is not what I've seen in the project, commercial is not tainted. We need to have a balance between commercial and charitable activities. In my very own opinion, we have moved away from this balance and we could have reshaped it during the pandemic.I very much hope the new Board will engage positively and unanimously on these things. I'm not finding the current conversation encouraging but I have hopes the new team will take a firm hold and change things for the better.Well this discussion has been proposed by a community member, and I find it encouraging in the sens of I hope it will clarify who is TDF and what it should do for its community at large. cheers Sophie
-- Lothar K. Becker, Member of the Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin, DE Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: https://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint mail: lot...@documentfoundation.org phone: +49 7202 9499 001 (c/o .riess applications gmbh)-- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
