Can anyone think of a solution for this? -- David
On 11-Aug-2012 11:40 AM, [email protected] wrote: > OK, how about this scenario for a problem. > > low latency project has a current value of 1 minute for min_rpc_delay. It > takes 10 seconds for an RPC. > SETI@Home is overloaded and takes 90 seconds to respond to an RPD delay. > Neither is currently handing out work. > > Result: Any host connected to both where both are the top two for work > fetch is going to have some difficulty fetching work from anywhere else. > > jm7 > > > > From: David Anderson <[email protected]> > > To: Richard Haselgrove <[email protected]> > > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > Date: 08/10/2012 03:47 PM > > Subject: Re: [boinc_dev] Changes to client scheduler from 6.12.33 to > 7.0.25? > > Sent by: <[email protected]> > > > > > > > Projects that use next_rpc_delay need to monitor their server load > and adjust the value accordingly. > -- David > > On 10-Aug-2012 12:02 PM, Richard Haselgrove wrote: >> Provided, that is, that the project with the low next_rpc_delay value > provides >> sufficient server resources to manage the workflow expeditiously. >> I've been noticing recently that the SETI servers can commonly take up to > 90 >> seconds to respond to a routine RPC. While waiting for that reply, the > client >> appears to be inhibited from initiating an RPC to another project. >> Nobody would suggest that SETI should ever consider going low-latency, > but I'm >> using the example to question whether the combination of low-latency and > a >> sluggish server could lead to the sort of problems for other projects > that John >> described. >> >> *From:* David Anderson <[email protected]> >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Sent:* Friday, 10 August 2012, 19:43 >> *Subject:* Re: [boinc_dev] Changes to client scheduler from 6.12.33 > to 7.0.25? >> >> There's nothing wrong with a small next_rpc_delay value, e.g. 1 > minute. >> This will have no effect on other projects. >> >> The semantics of this are: >> - the client issues a scheduler RPC to the project every 1 minute >> - If the project has the highest scheduling priority, >> this RPC will include work requests for resource types >> that are not above the max buffer limit >> (regardless of per-resource backoff). >> >> It a project (like Patricio's) has sporadic job availability, >> then it will typically have highest scheduling priority. >> However, as it processes jobs the priority will decrease, >> so it won't block out other project. >> >> -- David >> >> On 10-Aug-2012 7:36 AM, Richard Haselgrove wrote: >> > I would hope, and expect, that if anyone set an extreme > low-latency value >> > like a next_rpc_delay of 1 minute or less on a public-facing > volunteer >> > project, peer pressure from other projects would rapidly force > them to change >> > their mind. >> > >> > But as the front page of the website makes clear, BOINC is also > designed to >> > work as a virtual campus supercomputer centre, or as a company > desktop grid. >> > Under those circumstances, the risk of blocking other projects is > lessened, >> > and I think BOINC should work as described in the Wiki. >> > >> > >> >> ________________________________ From: "[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>" >> >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> To: > Patricio >> Vidal <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected] >>> >> >> Cc: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected] >> ; >> [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> Sent: >> >> Friday, 10 August 2012, 15:27 Subject: Re: [boinc_dev] Changes to > client >> >> scheduler from 6.12.33 to 7.0.25? >> >> >> >> There is still no point in the connection if the client is not > going to >> >> ask for work from the project anyway. >> >> >> >> The observation is that it would only take a very small number of >> >> low-latency projects to starve all other projects of connections > if the >> >> connection period to the server is short enough. >> >> >> >> For example, if a connection takes 15 seconds and there are 4 > projects >> >> with a server specified connection period of a minute, then no > other >> >> projects will ever be contacted for anything as there will always > be a >> >> pending connection to a low-latency project. If these > connections only >> >> happen when the client would ask for work from the project if it > were >> >> contactable, then the situation improves greatly. It can still > be the case >> >> where all 4 rise to the top of the list of projects from which > the client >> >> wants work - in that case, the client will get no work from > anywhere else >> >> until one of these projects has supplied work. >> >> >> >> jm7 >> >> >> >> >> >> |------------> | From: | |------------> >> >>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >>> >> |Patricio Vidal <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> | >> >>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >>> >> |------------> >> >> | To: | |------------> >> >>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >>> >> |<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> > | >> >>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >>> >> |------------> >> >> | Date: | |------------> >> >>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >>> >> |08/10/2012 10:04 AM >> | >> >>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >>> >> |------------> >> >> | Subject: | |------------> >> >>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >>> >> |Re: [boinc_dev] Changes to client scheduler from 6.12.33 to 7.0.25? >> | >> >>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >>> >> |------------> >> >> | Sent by: | |------------> >> >>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >>> >> |<[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> > | >> >>> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> In my previous email I meant to say ".. we can't have clients waiting >> >> hours..." >> >> >> >> I just found in the wiki that the next_rpc_delay is exactly > designed for >> >> my purpose: http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/LowLatency# >> >> >> >> Based on the wiki it seems to me the clients should contact the > server >> >> using the rpc_delay regardless they have work from the project. >> >> >> >> Patricio. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> yoyo <yoyo@mailueberfall .de> To Patricio Vidal 08/10/2012 01:21 > AM >> >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > cc >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> >> >> Subject Re: [boinc_dev] Changes to client scheduler from 6.12.33 > to >> >> 7.0.25? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> The client doesn't wait for hours if the server has work. Even > not if the >> >> workunits are very short. Before the client runs out of work it > fetches >> >> new ones. Additional you can configure on the server, that the > client >> >> should periodic, e.g. every hour, connect to the server. I use it > and let >> >> the client connect at least every 5h. Was this next_epc_delay > removed from >> >> trunc? I use the client connect to check if a workunit which is > in the >> >> queue of the client can be deleted. >> >> >> >> yoyo >> >> >> >> Patricio Vidal schrieb: Yes, we need that functionality. Our jobs > last from >> >> minutes to few hours so we can have the clients waiting hours to > contact >> >> the server. >> >> >> >> Is there a reason why the client blocks the other projects if it > has a >> >> very short request cycle and it does not have work? I would think > that if >> >> it doesn't has work it should jump to the next project in the > list. >> >> >> >> This functionality is critical for any project that has relative > short >> >> (few hours) jobs and it needs the results back as soon as > possible. I >> >> guess this usage is more typical of Boinc projects deployments in > private >> >> networks. >> >> >> >> Would it make sense to add another option to the configuration > file for >> >> this behavior? Something like <next_work_request_rpc_delay> ? Or > just >> >> restore part of the behavior of <next_rpc_delay> ? The old > behavior has >> >> been that way for years, right? Is it a issue with other projects > so that >> >> the behavior was changed? >> >> >> >> Patricio. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> John.McLeod@sybase. com To 08/09/2012 04:50 PM yoyo >> >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> cc >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>, >> >> >> >> [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>, Patricio Vidal >> >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> >> >> >> Subject Re: [boinc_dev] Changes to client scheduler from 6.12.33 > to >> >> 7.0.25? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> They want the clients not to "go to sleep" for a long time if > there is no >> >> work for a bit. Trickle messages only work if there is work from > that >> >> project actually on the client. >> >> >> >> There are some problems with contacting projects constantly under > certain >> >> circumstances. If there is no work on the client from the client > and the >> >> client is not interested in fetching work from that project, then > there is >> >> no point in a contact at all. There would be nothing that the > server >> >> could legitimately do. In this case, it is just taking up > bandwidth that >> >> some users pay for by the byte or have caps on usage. >> >> >> >> The code was modified so that no contact would be made if there > was no >> >> work on the client from the project. It could be modified so > that the >> >> client would talk to the project on the period specified if it > either had >> >> work from that project, or was interested in work from that > project. i.e. >> >> The queue is not full and that project was currently the top of > the list >> >> for work fetch. The problem with this is if this project has a > very short >> >> request cycle and it does not have work, it will block the client > from >> >> asking any other projects for work and the client would go idle > as a >> >> result. >> >> >> >> jm7 >> >> >> >> >> >> |------------> | From: | |------------> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |yoyo <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> >> | >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |------------> >> >> | To: | |------------> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |Patricio Vidal <[email protected] < > mailto:[email protected]>> >> >> | >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |------------> >> >> | Cc: | |------------> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>, >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>, >> >> <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> | >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |------------> >> >> | Date: | |------------> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |08/09/2012 03:37 PM >> >> | >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |------------> >> >> | Subject: | |------------> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |Re: [boinc_dev] Changes to client scheduler from 6.12.33 to >> >> 7.0.25? | >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> For what reason should the client contact the server so often? >> >> You just can use trickle messages to be sent by the client. >> >> >> >> yoyo >> >> >> >> Patricio Vidal schrieb: Yes, for our project we need the clients > to contact >> >> the server every few minutes. We send jobs that last from 20 > minutes to few >> >> hours. If the clients don't contact the server for several hour > then we are >> >> in trouble. >> >> >> >> Regards, Patricio. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> John.McLeod@sybase. >> >> >> >> com >> >> >> >> To 08/09/2012 11:21 AM Patricio Vidal >> >> >> >> >> >> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> >> >> >> cc >> >> >> >> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>, >> >> >> >> >> >> [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> Subject Re: [boinc_dev] > Changes to >> >> client scheduler from 6.12.33 to 7.0.25? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> It was removed in order to avoid hammering projects from clients > that were >> >> not going to ask for work and had no work they were working on. >> >> >> >> Perhaps, the code could be modified slightly again. Only ignore > the >> >> setting for contact server every X if the client has no work from > the >> >> server and the client would not ask for work from the project. >> >> >> >> BTW, a really short contact period will play havoc with multi > project >> >> clients as they will not be able to get work from elsewhere while > you have >> >> no work. >> >> >> >> jm7 >> >> >> >> >> >> |------------> | From: | |------------> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |Patricio Vidal <[email protected] < > mailto:[email protected]>> >> >> | >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |------------> >> >> | To: | |------------> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >> >> | >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |------------> >> >> | Date: | |------------> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |08/09/2012 11:00 AM >> >> | >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |------------> >> >> | Subject: | |------------> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |[boinc_dev] Changes to client scheduler from 6.12.33 to >> >> 7.0.25? | >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |------------> >> >> | Sent by: | |------------> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> |<[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> >> >> | >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Hello, >> >> >> >> I noticed a change in the client scheduler when moving from > 6.12.33 to >> >> 7.0.25: I have the <next_rpc_delay> set 180 in the config.xml. >> >> >> >> For 6.12.33 the clients contact the server even if there is no > work, which >> >> is our desired behavior: >> >> >> >> 8/8/2012 11:39:09 PM | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU > 8/8/2012 >> >> 11:42:12 PM | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU 8/8/2012 > 11:45:15 PM >> >> | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU 8/8/2012 11:48:18 PM | > AlgoGrid | >> >> Requesting new tasks for CPU >> >> >> >> >> >> For 7.0.25, when there are available task the scheduler contacts > the >> >> server as expected: >> >> >> >> 8/8/2012 9:26:33 PM | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU > 8/8/2012 >> >> 9:27:10 PM | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU >> >> >> >> ... but when there is no tasks it starts delaying the request >> >> exponentially: >> >> >> >> 8/8/2012 9:49:45 PM | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU > 8/8/2012 >> >> 10:08:23 PM | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU 8/8/2012 > 10:32:36 PM >> >> | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU 8/8/2012 11:37:35 PM | > AlgoGrid | >> >> Requesting new tasks for CPU 8/9/2012 2:59:13 AM | AlgoGrid | > Requesting >> >> new tasks for CPU 8/9/2012 10:41:06 AM | AlgoGrid | Requesting > new tasks >> >> for CPU >> >> >> >> >> >> Is there a new option to force the rpc call even if there is no > tasks >> >> available? We need this behavior because our boinc project needs > a quick >> >> response from the clients when we schedule a job (we have > workunits of >> >> about 1 min processing time and we schedule thousands at a time). >> >> >> >> Thank you, Patricio. >> >> >> >> >> >> The server made the following annotations >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> This message contains information that may be privileged or >> >> confidential and is the property of Beckman Coulter, Inc. It is > intended >> >> only for the person to whom it is addressed. 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