I agree. If the client is no ready to accept work and is not doing work for the project then it is ok no to contact the server. But if the client is ready to accept work it should do it.
Patricio. ------------------------------------------------- Patricio J. Vidal. Algorithm Research & Development Beckman Coulter, Inc. Miami, FL. Telephone: (+1 305) 380-2916 Facsimile: (+1 786) 639-2916 [email protected] Richard Haselgrove <r.haselgrove@btope nworld.com> To "[email protected]" 08/10/2012 10:36 AM <[email protected]>, Patricio Vidal <[email protected]> cc Please respond to "[email protected]" Richard Haselgrove <[email protected]> <r.haselgrove@btope Subject nworld.com> Re: [boinc_dev] Changes to client scheduler from 6.12.33 to 7.0.25? I would hope, and expect, that if anyone set an extreme low-latency value like a next_rpc_delay of 1 minute or less on a public-facing volunteer project, peer pressure from other projects would rapidly force them to change their mind. But as the front page of the website makes clear, BOINC is also designed to work as a virtual campus supercomputer centre, or as a company desktop grid. Under those circumstances, the risk of blocking other projects is lessened, and I think BOINC should work as described in the Wiki. From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: Patricio Vidal <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected]; [email protected] Sent: Friday, 10 August 2012, 15:27 Subject: Re: [boinc_dev] Changes to client scheduler from 6.12.33 to 7.0.25? There is still no point in the connection if the client is not going to ask for work from the project anyway. The observation is that it would only take a very small number of low-latency projects to starve all other projects of connections if the connection period to the server is short enough. For example, if a connection takes 15 seconds and there are 4 projects with a server specified connection period of a minute, then no other projects will ever be contacted for anything as there will always be a pending connection to a low-latency project. If these connections only happen when the client would ask for work from the project if it were contactable, then the situation improves greatly. It can still be the case where all 4 rise to the top of the list of projects from which the client wants work - in that case, the client will get no work from anywhere else until one of these projects has supplied work. jm7 |------------> | From: | |------------> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |Patricio Vidal <[email protected]> | >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | To: | |------------> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |<[email protected]> | >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | Date: | |------------> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |08/10/2012 10:04 AM | >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | Subject: | |------------> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |Re: [boinc_dev] Changes to client scheduler from 6.12.33 to 7.0.25? | >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | Sent by: | |------------> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |<[email protected]> | >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| In my previous email I meant to say ".. we can't have clients waiting hours..." I just found in the wiki that the next_rpc_delay is exactly designed for my purpose: http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/LowLatency# Based on the wiki it seems to me the clients should contact the server using the rpc_delay regardless they have work from the project. Patricio. yoyo <yoyo@mailueberfall .de> To Patricio Vidal 08/10/2012 01:21 AM <[email protected]> cc [email protected] Subject Re: [boinc_dev] Changes to client scheduler from 6.12.33 to 7.0.25? The client doesn't wait for hours if the server has work. Even not if the workunits are very short. Before the client runs out of work it fetches new ones. Additional you can configure on the server, that the client should periodic, e.g. every hour, connect to the server. I use it and let the client connect at least every 5h. Was this next_epc_delay removed from trunc? I use the client connect to check if a workunit which is in the queue of the client can be deleted. yoyo Patricio Vidal schrieb: Yes, we need that functionality. Our jobs last from minutes to few hours so we can have the clients waiting hours to contact the server. Is there a reason why the client blocks the other projects if it has a very short request cycle and it does not have work? I would think that if it doesn't has work it should jump to the next project in the list. This functionality is critical for any project that has relative short (few hours) jobs and it needs the results back as soon as possible. I guess this usage is more typical of Boinc projects deployments in private networks. Would it make sense to add another option to the configuration file for this behavior? Something like <next_work_request_rpc_delay> ? Or just restore part of the behavior of <next_rpc_delay> ? The old behavior has been that way for years, right? Is it a issue with other projects so that the behavior was changed? Patricio. John.McLeod@sybase. com To 08/09/2012 04:50 PM yoyo <[email protected]> cc [email protected], [email protected], Patricio Vidal <[email protected]> Subject Re: [boinc_dev] Changes to client scheduler from 6.12.33 to 7.0.25? They want the clients not to "go to sleep" for a long time if there is no work for a bit. Trickle messages only work if there is work from that project actually on the client. There are some problems with contacting projects constantly under certain circumstances. If there is no work on the client from the client and the client is not interested in fetching work from that project, then there is no point in a contact at all. There would be nothing that the server could legitimately do. In this case, it is just taking up bandwidth that some users pay for by the byte or have caps on usage. The code was modified so that no contact would be made if there was no work on the client from the project. It could be modified so that the client would talk to the project on the period specified if it either had work from that project, or was interested in work from that project. i.e. The queue is not full and that project was currently the top of the list for work fetch. The problem with this is if this project has a very short request cycle and it does not have work, it will block the client from asking any other projects for work and the client would go idle as a result. jm7 |------------> | From: | |------------> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |yoyo <[email protected]> | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | To: | |------------> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |Patricio Vidal <[email protected]> | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | Cc: | |------------> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |<[email protected]>, <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | Date: | |------------> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |08/09/2012 03:37 PM | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | Subject: | |------------> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |Re: [boinc_dev] Changes to client scheduler from 6.12.33 to 7.0.25? | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| For what reason should the client contact the server so often? You just can use trickle messages to be sent by the client. yoyo Patricio Vidal schrieb: Yes, for our project we need the clients to contact the server every few minutes. We send jobs that last from 20 minutes to few hours. If the clients don't contact the server for several hour then we are in trouble. Regards, Patricio. John.McLeod@sybase. com To 08/09/2012 11:21 AM Patricio Vidal <[email protected]> cc [email protected], [email protected] Subject Re: [boinc_dev] Changes to client scheduler from 6.12.33 to 7.0.25? It was removed in order to avoid hammering projects from clients that were not going to ask for work and had no work they were working on. Perhaps, the code could be modified slightly again. Only ignore the setting for contact server every X if the client has no work from the server and the client would not ask for work from the project. BTW, a really short contact period will play havoc with multi project clients as they will not be able to get work from elsewhere while you have no work. jm7 |------------> | From: | |------------> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |Patricio Vidal <[email protected]> | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | To: | |------------> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |<[email protected]> | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | Date: | |------------> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |08/09/2012 11:00 AM | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | Subject: | |------------> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |[boinc_dev] Changes to client scheduler from 6.12.33 to 7.0.25? | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |------------> | Sent by: | |------------> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| |<[email protected]> | --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| Hello, I noticed a change in the client scheduler when moving from 6.12.33 to 7.0.25: I have the <next_rpc_delay> set 180 in the config.xml. For 6.12.33 the clients contact the server even if there is no work, which is our desired behavior: 8/8/2012 11:39:09 PM | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU 8/8/2012 11:42:12 PM | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU 8/8/2012 11:45:15 PM | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU 8/8/2012 11:48:18 PM | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU For 7.0.25, when there are available task the scheduler contacts the server as expected: 8/8/2012 9:26:33 PM | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU 8/8/2012 9:27:10 PM | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU ... but when there is no tasks it starts delaying the request exponentially: 8/8/2012 9:49:45 PM | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU 8/8/2012 10:08:23 PM | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU 8/8/2012 10:32:36 PM | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU 8/8/2012 11:37:35 PM | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU 8/9/2012 2:59:13 AM | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU 8/9/2012 10:41:06 AM | AlgoGrid | Requesting new tasks for CPU Is there a new option to force the rpc call even if there is no tasks available? We need this behavior because our boinc project needs a quick response from the clients when we schedule a job (we have workunits of about 1 min processing time and we schedule thousands at a time). Thank you, Patricio. The server made the following annotations --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of Beckman Coulter, Inc. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute or use this message or any part thereof. 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