"Jeremy Siek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.44.0211110951350.6135-100000@;zaphod.osl.iu.edu... > Hi Edward, > > Since you feel so strongly about this, please write a new version of the > property map docs and send them to me. > > In future emails, I would appreciate it if you refrained from using such > an accusatory tone. At this point I'm feeling hurt by your words and > discouraged about volunteering my time to boost.
I apologize for sounding accusatory. I don't understand what you are at with property_map although I discern a good idea in there. I just don't understand why you are unwilling to explain it in terms that others can use more easily. I know that I am missing how the mechanism works which links the property_map concept to the get(), put(), and operator[] functions. It is your idea and your documentation. If you feel that the documentation is fit for the use of others, so be it. I will move on to other libraries which I can understand. But I would like you to think about the possibility that what you perhaps understand intuitively, others don't because they don't have the information necessary to use your idea. I don't want to ever discourage you or any others from contributing to an organization so devoted to software excellence as Boost is. I am truly sorry if any nastiness crept into the discussion in my efforts to understand your software. > > Sincerely, > Jeremy > > On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Edward Diener wrote: > eddiel> "Jeremy Siek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message > eddiel> news:Pine.GSO.4.44.0211102333330.4424-100000@;zaphod.osl.iu.edu... > eddiel> > Hi Edward, > eddiel> > > eddiel> > On Sun, 10 Nov 2002, Edward Diener wrote: > eddiel> > eddiel> OK, here are some questions regarding the property map library; > eddiel> > eddiel> > eddiel> > eddiel> 1) What is a property map ? Is it a template class, a class, a > eddiel> > eddiel> template function, a function ? > eddiel> > > eddiel> > It is a "concept", as the term is used in the SGI STL docs: > eddiel> > http://www.sgi.com/tech/stl/stl_introduction.html > eddiel> > It has to do with specifying the contract between generic algorithms > eddiel> > (function templates) and the user of such algorithms. > eddiel> > eddiel> I am aware of your defintion of "concept" from Matt Austern's fine book. But > eddiel> concepts imply implementations. > eddiel> > eddiel> > > eddiel> > If you were looking for some useful concrete component to implement some > eddiel> > kind of mapping, then I'm afraid you will be disappointed in the property > eddiel> > map library. > eddiel> > eddiel> I am disappointed in the doc. The concept sounds interesting but I have no > eddiel> idea how it is implemented or used in a real situation. > eddiel> > eddiel> > > eddiel> > eddiel> 2) What does the word "property" mean in the context of the name ? > eddiel> > > eddiel> > Here by property we mean something that is associated with some object. I > eddiel> > know this is vague, but there just is not much to the property map > eddiel> > concept. > eddiel> > eddiel> Yes, it is vague. Does that make you happy about it ? > eddiel> > eddiel> > > eddiel> > eddiel> 3) What is the difference between property map and std::map<> ? > eddiel> > > eddiel> > std::map<> is a class. property map is a concept (well, a collection > eddiel> > of concepts). You can use the boost::associative_property_map > eddiel> > adaptor to adapt std::map<> into a type that *models* property map. > eddiel> > eddiel> OK, why not explain that in the doc and how it is done. > eddiel> > eddiel> > > eddiel> > eddiel> 4) How does one use a property map ? > eddiel> > > eddiel> > You write function templates with template parameters that > eddiel> > have property map as their requirement. > eddiel> > eddiel> Example of this in the doc please. > eddiel> > eddiel> > > eddiel> > eddiel> 5) How does one create a property map of one's own ? > eddiel> > > eddiel> > Create a class and then define get(), put() and operator[] > eddiel> > function for the class. > eddiel> > eddiel> Example of this in the doc please. > eddiel> > eddiel> > > eddiel> > eddiel> 6) What are the prototypes for the get(), put(), and operator[] > eddiel> > eddiel> functions, and are these really global functions as the doc > eddiel> > eddiel> suggests or are they functions in the boost namespace ? > eddiel> > > eddiel> > They can live anywhere that argument dependent lookup can find them, which > eddiel> > means just about anywhere. > eddiel> > eddiel> You didn't answer the first question. > eddiel> > eddiel> > > eddiel> > eddiel> 7) What do the various categories actually do for property maps ? > eddiel> > > eddiel> > Like the iterator tags in the C++ std, they allow function templates to > eddiel> > dispatch to different code depending on the category of the property map. > eddiel> > eddiel> Example of this in the doc please, with some function template showing this > eddiel> technique as practical usage within your "concept". > eddiel> > eddiel> > > eddiel> > eddiel> I do not believe that any of these questions are answered clearly > eddiel> > eddiel> in the property map documentation although they are all basic > eddiel> > eddiel> points which should be explained to the end user. I know there is > eddiel> > eddiel> a concept there of mapping keys to values but beyond that the > eddiel> > eddiel> documentation seems abstruse at best and needlessly irritating at > eddiel> > eddiel> worst. > eddiel> > eddiel> > eddiel> > eddiel> Please Boosters <g>, think about explaining your ideas to the > eddiel> > eddiel> programming world in ways that they understand and can use, rather > eddiel> > eddiel> than in metaprogramming terminology which only a select few know. > eddiel> > eddiel> Good documentation is as important, in its own way, as good code. > eddiel> > > eddiel> > I've taken another look at the docs, and I'm afraid I do not see a lot of > eddiel> > room for improvement. The docs say pretty much what I said above, and > eddiel> > include links to resources where one can learn more about generic > eddiel> > programming. > eddiel> > > eddiel> > The property map library is by nature abstract. The main point of the > eddiel> > library is not to provide concrete classes, but instead to describe a > eddiel> > whole family of classes so that they can be used interchangeably in > eddiel> > function templates (generic algorithms). > eddiel> > > eddiel> > The property map library is for generic programming, and is described > eddiel> > using the terminology of generic programming. If you aren't doing generic > eddiel> > programming, then you don't need the property map library. > eddiel> > eddiel> I think you have taken an end run around the problem of your documentation. > eddiel> Rather than explain how to use your concept in detail to do generic > eddiel> programming, you want to insist that you have explained it adequately for > eddiel> other implementors to use it and that is what matters to you. OK, I will > eddiel> move on. I find it useless to fight with those who feel that the > eddiel> documentation is only for others "in the know" and not for the uninitiated. > eddiel> > eddiel> I see universities connected with your name. Having gone to colleges myself > eddiel> many moons ago, I find it unbelievable that any college would accept your > eddiel> documentation as adequate explanation of your concept. Either colleges have > eddiel> deteriorated from what they were when I went there, or you don't perceive > eddiel> the need for the same amount of professionalism in dealing with other > eddiel> programmers as you would in dealing with college standards. > eddiel> > eddiel> > eddiel> > eddiel> > eddiel> _______________________________________________ > eddiel> Unsubscribe & other changes: http://lists.boost.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/boost > eddiel> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jeremy Siek http://php.indiana.edu/~jsiek/ > Ph.D. Student, Indiana Univ. B'ton email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > C++ Booster (http://www.boost.org) office phone: (812) 855-3608 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > _______________________________________________ > Unsubscribe & other changes: http://lists.boost.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/boost > _______________________________________________ Unsubscribe & other changes: http://lists.boost.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/boost
