Darryl Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Here's the thing about determinism. If you believe in determinism
>there is no point in trying to convince other people that it
>exists...since they are predestined to believe in free will.
Dan made the same mistake recently. Assuming determinism, the very
discussion is input into the deterministic machine which will what beliefs
someone will hold!
>It seems to me that the determinism/free will argument is a one way
>ratchet, like logic/no logic. If you don't accept logic then there's
>no reason to try to convince you to accept logic...since you would
>reject any logical arguments as worthless. Same thing with
>determinism. Maybe determinism is true, but if it is, why would anyone
>care?
One reason is that with a fallacious definition of free will we might
interact with each other differently than if we had a better understanding
of our decision-making processes.
I'd break it down four ways:
1. We have free will via a non-material soul that provides decision making
abilities outside the realm of physics.
2. We have free will due to quantum unpredictability that means that our
behavior, while constrained, is unpredictable.
3. We don't have free will, since we don't count rolling dice as any better
than classical determinism (brass rods & gears).
4. We don't have free will, and classical determinisism rules: quantum
randomness is an incomplete model of a deeper principle.
I think most of the people in the world currently believe in #1.
#4 is either a rejection of QM altogether (for whatever reason) or the more
socially acceptable adoption of something like MWI which removes the
randomness from the quantum equation.
#2 and #3 are both dependent on the same basic materialist philosophy, and
just differ in a personal interpretation of what free will is. These two are
the ones that crop up every 4 months on the list, with Dan (and others)
taking #2 and me (and others) taking #3.
Within the context of this list, I agree that it's not worth churning too
much time over the distinction between #2 and #3. However, I think there's a
world of difference between #1 and #2/#3 which it is crucial to discuss,
since it comes to bear on core issues such as societal responsibility, child
rearing, etc.
Joshua
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