And Darryl "The World Is Fine, I Don't Have To Give Up My SUV" Shannon
spake once more:
>*Anyway*, I do want to comment about one little thing. Consumption of
>meat in the first world does NOT take food away from the third world.
I (cautiously) agree, but then again, I raise meat for a living.
>The United States could double or triple our food production, farmers
>are going bankrupt because prices are very very low.
Mmmm... yeah, sort of, but...
The reason prices are low is because of government subsidies, and it's
only from being in (essentially unsubsidized) New Zealand that I've
started to realize just how much the government does support the farmer.
We're not having to pay the full cost of the transport *or* the
production of our food, and were those subsidies removed, America would
no longer be producing tons and tons of cheap food.
Farmers *are* going bankrupt because of low prices... but that's partly
because they've been using very high-cost systems because of aforesaid
subsidies and those systems are catching up to them, and partly because
more and more of the profit is going to the middleman, for example
"co-ops" (read: monopoly law dodgers) like Dairy Farmers of America. And
we couldn't "double or triple" our food production, not for very bloody
long.
Incidentally, America is a net importer of food.
> The trouble is,
>who's going to buy our cheap food? No one, there is no market for more
>food. Increase the population and we could feed them easily. The real
>trouble with increased population is habitat destruction, not famine.
Come on, Darryl, spot the logical fallacy.
You say: there is no market for more food.
Then you say: Therefore, no one must be hungry.
You assume that everyone who wants food has *money* for food... which is
exactly the problem, isn't it? They don't have money, therefore they're
not a market force, and therefore (as far as you're concerned, it seems)
they don't exist. However, there are actually hungry people out there
still, and famine is still a problem, and this is much worse logic than I
expect even from you.
>And anyway, human population is leveling off.
Ever the optimist. I wish I had my textbooks here, since as far as I
recall they don't agree with you.
> Depending on how quickly
>they are allowed to develop, third world countries should have first
>world growth rates within a generation or two or three.
Allowed by who?
> First world
>growth rates are essentially zero, and are negative in some cases.
Um, as far as I can remember, *two* cases- Sweden and somebody else. And
not all other first world countries are at zero population growth. The
US, for example, I'm pretty sure is at +1.2, and most of the rest are the
same, which (if you do your averages) does *not* equal "essentially
zero". The growth rate of first world countries is significantly smaller
but still positive.
>If
>you asked me to guess, I would predict falling world population within
>a hundred years.
Whoa- do I hear *falling* world population? Now how did we get *here*?
Darryl, Darryl, Darryl... even assuming your very optimistic prediction
that in a few generations all third-world countries will reach the growth
rates of first-world countries is true, the *first-world* countries
aren't at zero yet, much *less* at negative values. This isn't optimism;
this is wishful thinking.
The only way I can think of for there to be a falling world population in
a hundred years is major famines or plagues sweeping through the
population... so be careful what you wish for.
>Of course, theres no way to predict culture and
>attitudes that far in advance. Perhaps everyone will convert to
>Mormonism by then.
My Dad always refers to Mormons as "those poor bastards," but then again,
he married a redhead. I suppose he thinks one is more than enough.
>So, worry about humane and hygenic food production, but don't worry
>about lack of food.
Unless you don't have any money, in which case you're insignificant
anyway.
>I know you can't help worrying Kristin, I just
>hope we can get you worrying productively! Yes, let's harness all that
>worry and perhaps we can do something really great with it. Who's got
>a suggestion for some problem that would benefit from a full time worrier?
Darryl, have they upped your medication again? You're starting to sound
almost feverishly upbeat. Not to mention all those little logical
skips....
Kat Feete
Defend thyself, oh knight!
------------
"One by one I examined my relationships and experienced
a true epiphany: all my life I had surrounded myself
with weak persons in the unspoken hope that in exchange
for looking after them I would receive a little affection,
or at least gratitude. The results had been disasterous:
the more I gave, the more resentment I recieved in return....
No one is grateful for being made an invalid. You can't
carry the responsibily for another person forever; a moment
comes when you grow weary and you let them fall; they feel
betrayed and, naturally, detest you."
--Isabel Allende
The Infinate Plan
