At 09:32 14-7-01 -0500, Adam Lipscomb wrote:
> > Maybe not in the US. Note however that I said "our population" -- since
> > it's well known that I live in The Netherlands, it should be quite obvious
> > that the phrase "our population" referred to the Dutch population, not the
> > Americans. Back then, proclaiming you were an environmentalist was enough
> > to be considered a lunatic.
>
>
>Your post seemed to me to pretty clearly indicate a general statement about
>the overall political climate and Western views towards environmentalism.
Ah. Well, from now on, I'll make sure I always explicitly use the phrase
"The Dutch population" instead of "our population". I wouldn't want to
confuse any Americans... Can I still refer to The Netherlands as "this
country" or "my country", or would that be too vague or too confusing for
you as well? :(
> > >Like the laws of physics?
> >
> > More like forces that want to protect current economic interests.
>
>Please detail these forces that seem to be able to bend the laws of physics
>to their will.
<sigh>
I never claimed anyone could bend the laws of physics...
>I wonder - is this something taught at Community College, or
>do you have to spend years in a Tibetan Monastary to learn? ;-)
A course is available in one or two places in the world, but not for
Americans -- the school management fears Americans would use that knowledge
only to selfishly enrich themselves, not apply it for the common good. :)
> > >What I find very frustrating is that you seem to be sure that the
> > >engineering problems are ficticious.
> >
> > I never made that claim.
>
>You've dismissed almost every post Dan has made detailing the inefficiencies
>of current "green" power sources,
No, I've argued that green power is a good alternative, even though Dan
claims it's a bad thing simply because it's not "economically feasible"
(IOW: we shouldn't switch to green power because we can't make millions of
dollars in profits from it). I never said green power sources were already
highly efficient.
Claiming that something is a good idea even if it's not profitable, is
something completely different from claiming that engineering problems are
ficticious.
Must be an European thing: we stimulate green power because we know it will
benefit us all in the long run. I think it's called "long term vision" or
something...
>You've claimed that employees of Big Oil will lie,
>cheat and steal to protect Big Oil's interests.
I doubt the average worker in the oil business would "lie, cheat and steal"
to protect the interests of Big Oil. They don't share in the profits, and
just try to make a living. Now, the upper echelons with their big salaries
and lucrative benefits, the ones that have a lot to lose, that's a
completely different story.
>Dan's support of nuclear
>power clearly disproves your claim. Additionally, his detailed analyses
>complete with facts and figures are worth 1000 times their weight in
>hysterical screeds without a single documented fact.
Wonderful. Now environmentalists aren't only liars and treehugging idiots
who don't know what they're talking about, but they're also hysterical.
Nice to see the nuclear lobby considers environmentalists to be such nice,
intelligent people... :(
>Furthermore, if you look at the DIRECT and INDIRECT damage to the
>environment from nuclear power, then compare them to the damage done by
>strip mining for coal, oil spills, etc, nuclear fission looks like a darn
>sweet deal.
>
> > Really, Dan, nuclear energy is *not* green.
>
>I'd say yes, it is.
- The idea behind green power is that we can never run out of it: there
will always be sun, wind and water, but we do not have an unlimited supply
of Uranium.
- Those rods have to be heavily shielded inside the reactor because of the
radiation. Ever seen someone build heavy shielding around a windmill or a
solar panel?
- After shutdown, nuclear reactors have to be maintained for another 40-50
years before they can be safely removed. Solar panels and windmills can be
removed immediately.
- Nuclear waste has to be buried hundreds of meters below the surface to
protect every living thing on that surface. Solar panels and windmills can
be taken apart and recycled.
<sarcasm>
But hey, that's all just insignificant details, right? Nothing there that
clashes with the "no waste, no pollution" of real green energy.
</sarcasm>
Jeroen
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