> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of Andrew Crystall
> > selfish for species X. And if frog species X and fish species Y do
> > something that makes them, together, more competitive -- let's call it
> > "bar" -- then bar is altruistic within the combined community of frog
> > species X and fish species Y, but competitive in the larger context.
>
> Wait, how is it altruistic? It's selfish on the part of X and Y both,
> since it allows them to compete better. I would argue that ALL
> genetically-derived behavior is selfish.
I don't think you've grasped what I'm saying about context. Yes, in the
larger context, it is appropriately called selfish, but not in relationship
to one another. They are cooperating to each other's benefit, to the
detriment of whatever they mutually compete with.
> Exclusively Human? no, Dolphins have shown some signs of
> having them as well. Spoken *Language* is the key to the
> evolution of memes, complex languages allow ideas to be
> discussed, and only through complex languages can memes arrive.
>
> IMHO, of course.
Clearly, memes exist only by virtue of collaboration, since a meme means
nothing unless it is shared. Isn't the same true, in the same way, of
genes? And any other kind of communication?
> This debate still goes on in scientific circles, but I remind you that
> Darwin himself looked on genes (although not in those terms) as
> being selfish.
Of course he did. That's the kind of thinking that I believe needs to
change. I'm regard Darwin as making great progress, but great progress
remains to be made.
Nick
