At 10:38 PM 3/7/2003 -0500 Jon Gabriel wrote:
>IMNSHO, the 'Earth' character Jen Wolling had it right. Read everything and
>let your worldview be shaken every once in a while.
Yeah..... but when Jen exposed herself to newviewpoints, she didn't also
have to expose herself to Jeroen's sanctimony.....
>We have been enjoying a lovely little spate of French-bashing here lately.
>Jonah Goldberg of National Review, who admits that French-bashing is
>"shtick" (as it is to many American comedians), has popularized the phrase
>"cheese-eating surrender monkeys" to describe the French.
Full disclosure - Jonah Goldberg's French-bashing shtick of the
"cheese-eating surrender monkeys" dates back to at least 1998, and probably
earlier. Its a shtick, he's been doing it for years, and was not
developed in response to the very serious issues of the day.
>One million, four hundred thousand French soldiers were killed during World
>War I. As a result, there weren't many Frenchmen left to fight in World War
>II. Nevertheless, 100,000 French soldiers lost their lives trying to stop
>Adolf Hitler.
I don't know what the proportional casualties were in France compared to
the rest of Europe, but somehow Britain and indeed, Germany, both managed
to get up to fight again when they felt that they were called.
Indeed, isn't there something fascinating about how France lost 1.4million
in WWI, but when faced with perhaps the greatest evil that Europe had seen
since Napoleon, or maybe even Genghis Khan, France somehow escaped with
only 100,000 casualties?
Now, 100,000 is a lot - but this is the logic of war we are talking
about... and.... well, I won't say any more since I don't want to be
insensitive to the memory of those 100,000 brave men - but I think its
clear now that the above paragraph doesn't really support Ms. Ivins' point
as much as she thinks.
>Relying on the Maginot Line was one of the great military follies of modern
>history, but it does not reflect on the courage of those who died for France
>in 1940. For 18 months after that execrable defeat, the United States of
>America continued to have cordial diplomatic relations with Nazi Germany.
So cordial that German stationed U-boats off the coast of North Carolina to
being sinking our Merchant Marine fleet. So cordial that after the US
was ambushed, Germany wasted little time in declaring war on us in our
moment of weakness.
Sorry, but this is a bald-faced lie..... and it looks really pathetic to be
lecturing people sanctimoniously, and then tell a bald-faced lie like that.
>For those of you who have not read Paris 1919, I recommend it highly.
>Roosevelt was anti-colonialist. That system was a great evil, a greater
>horror even than Nazism or Stalinism.
I'd just like to state for the record that I find this logic highly,
highly, curious. Indeed, in many cases, of which the US is the most
prominent example, colonialism was not pure evil. Indeed, I have a bit of
pride in the US's colonial heritage - despite the mistakes that were made,
and the evils that were committed in the name of colonialism. In other
words, the history of colonialism is nuanced, which is certainly more than
can be said for Stalinism or Nazism.
>I was in Paris on Sept. 11, 2001. The reaction was so immediate, so
>generous, so overwhelming.
>
>Not just the government, but the people kept bringing flowers to the
>American embassy. They covered the American Cathedral, the American Church,
>anything they could find that was American.
>
>They didn't just leave flowers -- they wrote notes with them. I read more
>than 100 of them. Not only did they refer, again and again, to Normandy, to
>never forgetting, but there were even some in ancient, spidery handwriting
>referring to WWI: "Lafayette is still with you."
>
>Look, the French are not a touchy-feely people. They're more, like, logical.
>For them to approach total strangers in the streets who look American and
>hug them is seriously extraordinary. I got patted so much I felt like a
>Labrador retriever. I wish Andy Rooney had been there.
Unfortunately, as Gautam brilliantly pointed out in a recent message, the
actions of the French have no gone far beyond those of friends.
As an example, I am a Catholic, and I have friends who are of much
different moral persuasions than I am. Thus, I see the world through a
different moral lens than they do. This means that there are times when I
recognize the need to support a friend who is taking a different course
then I would choose, while still trying to direct them towards the best
possible outcome within their decision.
The French, however, are sacrificing NATO, the UN Security Council, and the
Trans-Atlantic Relationship on the pyre of their own obstinancy. Even if
the French don't agree with what we are about to do.... they could at
least at some point offer to stand aside, and start planning for us how to
make the post-Saddam Iraq the best possible place for al those involved,
>Does it not occur to anyone that these are very old friends of ours, trying
>to tell us what they think they know about being hated by weak enemies in
>the Third World?
Actually, what I am far more worried about is being hated by those who see
that the United States, as a hyperpower with the clear ability to change
the world, instead chooses to support the continued existence of some of
the world's most oppressive regimes.
Most of the attackers on September 11th were Saudis. I can't help but
think that our failure to promote freedom in that blighted corner of the
world was a direct cause.
TotalFinaElf has a $40billion oil contract signed with Saddam Hussein.
The phrase "No Blood for Oil", couldn't be a more accurate description of
the oppression in Iraq being wholeheartedly support by the French government.
Unfortunately, I don't expect that $40 billion number to ever appear in a
Molly Ivins column......
JDG
_______________________________________________________
John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world,
it is God's gift to humanity." - George W. Bush 1/29/03
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