--- Chad Cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Julia Thompson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 12:43 PM
> > To: Killer Bs Discussion
> > Subject: Re: Is it a crime to urge another to commit suicide?
> >
> >
> > Nick Arnett wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone happen to know if -- and where -- it is against
> > the law to urge
> > > another person to commit suicide?
> > >
> > > Nick
>
>
> I would presume that if suicide was a crime (like it is in some states)
> that
> urging some to commit suicide would result in breaking the law only if they
> committed the crime, as an accessory. If one does not commit suicide, then
> you might be charged with conspiracy to commit a crime.
>
> I am sure that there is nothing wrong with sending someone the forms to
> request doctor-assisted suicide in Oregon.
>
> Nerd From Oregon
>
>
> >
> > Well, my mom has been out of touch with the suicide
> > prevention group she
> > volunteered for when she lived in New Hampshire, and isn't
> > really up on
> > laws, but she doesn't think so.
> >
> > If someone were on a ledge, and you yelled, "Jump!", they
> > might get you
> > for disorderly conduct, though. At least, that's what she thought.
> >
> > Sorry we couldn't be more helpful. :)
> >
> > Julia
> > _______________________________________________
> > http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
> >
>
This isn't really right as a bottom post but I don't know where to put it.
Normaly it would go at the top, but....
Why try to make more of it than it is anyway? If you know someone is just
spouting, then why not look closer to see if you can't tell what they are
really saying....or feeling. Perhaps addressing that will have a better
effect.
Canceling someone can have a serious effect on them, it is a form of
emotional violence. It's a kind of death. On no list I have been on has
anyone ever been successfuly canceled. A very very small number go off,
concider what they did, deeply regret it, wonder back around wihtout the
former dificulty. A smaller number yet, simply go away. Most explode into a
worse disruption than they ever were.
There are other ways of dealing with things that following the same
escilating patterns as the disruption.
The root of the problem is that the disruption ~really can't~ understand why
they are a disruption, they ~really don't~ see the difference between their
actions and the actions of others. To such a person, the only logical
explination is that a partiular set of people are out to get them and are
working against them directly. The fact is, that after such a person has been
a disruption for long enough, there is no need for paradoia, their fears are
true.
The hard part in this equasion is that the many can not see the viewpoint of
the disruption. To them, any reasonable person would agree that the
disruption is completly at fault. And this is ture. Hoever, it is not true
for the disruption. The only thing that makes the many right and the
disruption wrong, is the number which agree.
It would be nice if the disruption would simply go away, or learn how to not
act in such a way on their own, but if this were posible then the disruption
would be a reasonable person. Usualy, everyon can agree that this is not the
case. One method that might work is to bring the disruption closer, instead
of pushing them away.
To recognize the social disconect and to aid in teaching the disruption to
recognize it for themselves. That is not to say that such a person every has
to agree, only that they have to understand the viewpoint of others so that
they do not inflame them. For such a practice to work all must use patience,
humility, and dignity. All must be truly apologetic for the pain they have
caused the disruption. They do not have to be wrong, only regretfull that in
the disruption's world they were the source of suffering. Even being
regretfull that they apear to be the source of suffering is enough.
A mistake would be to treat the disruption like everyone else, or by the same
rules. To attempt this method the disruption must be treated differntly for
some time. Since they already are being treated differntly this shoudl not be
a problem. There must be an aknowledgment that the disruption is differnt.
This is not to say that they are better or worse, but that they are differnt
than the majority. Respongin to them must be done carefuly. They must be
informed that the differnce is recognized and that instead of pushing them
away, an attempt will be made to help them modify their ways when dealing
with the group so that they will not be a disruption. Then whenever any
disruptive behavior is used, they must be responded to in a manner that shows
how this is a disruption. All the while with the understaning that it does
not make sense to the individual. That to them things appear very differnt,
social norms and social logic works differntly. Eventualy less and less of
this type of ..."teaching" will be required. The one who once was a
disruption may still be somewhat differnt, but they will no-longer be causing
a problem, and they will appear only as another member of the group. To the
one who was once a disruption they will still think, that the majority are
bizar, but they will understand the differnce, and will not feel that they
have been wronged.
For such a person, they must understand that the things which are enflamitory
are not inteded to be that way, and accept the others off comments and
statments as if they were a child who didn't know better. They would have to
learn to do this indefinatly. Is it too much to ask a group to do it for a
shorter period of time?
Al it takes is to respond to disruption only be explaining why it is
disruptive, NOT that thee is something "wrong" with the person, but explain
how the perception works as if they are from another planet, and don't
undertand your ways. nothing more, nothing less.
I hope that no one feels attacked, threatened or belittled by my statments
above. I hope that everyone knows that I have the highest respect for them.
This may come as a supprise, but I even have respect this partiular
diruption. I also hope that if you don't agree with this method, you will at
least give it enough thought that you will understand that the motivation for
the suggestion was out of a desire for the greater good and harmony.
To each their own decisions. From all a consensus.
I know how it feels to be the one on the outside. I have been there before
and had to gain ensite on my own. Every Nerd, Geek, Bohemian, Punker, or
whatever passes for the out crown these days has felt that. I have also been
one of the group, part of the majority, annoyed at the disruption, even
_scared_ of certain, individuals.
Which brings me to a final point about my little suggestion. There is a time
and a place when befriending can no-longer work. When a disruption chooses
pride and indecorousness. This may be sad, for some more carring individuals.
But in such cases it may be time to take greater action to distence onself
from the disruption.
Once again to each their own decisions. From all a consensus.
Respectfuly,
Jan
=====
_________________________________________________
Jan William Coffey
_________________________________________________
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