From: Jan Coffey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: A friendly request JVB Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 19:50:42 -0700 (PDT)
Before you go and trash this message, I would request that you read it to the
end.
Jan,
Jeroen van Baardwijk has something he would like to say to this list.
Yes he does. He's been flooding our mailboxes with it for months. He hates us. He'd like to see us rot in hell. He wants us to die painful deaths. We deserve to die. We are assholes. We deserve to rot in the gutter with the rest of life's rejects. He's been treated unfairly. He should never have been put on moderation. It wasn't his fault he attacked many of us onlist and off. We forced him to attack us. We forced him to spam us with multiple copies of the same e-mails sent to multiple addresses. He's completely innocent. He never tried to mislead us of his true motivations. He never tried to attack Nick's server and disrupt brin-l. He really was trying to incite a rebellion against the listowners, but that's because they forced him into it. He didn't want to do any of these things. We forced him to take action by removing him when he attacked some of us repeatedly onlist and refused to apologize.
Oh, and when he did apologize, it was only because the listowners were about to throw him offlist for attacking us and he promptly rescinded the apology by again threatening us all.
I think we can honestly assume that very very few people on his supressed recipient list give a damn about his opinions any more. In fact Jan, afaik, you might be the only one.
I don't know what the rules are about this sort of thing, but I think that you will agree that if there are such rules this should be the exception.
Along with how many others? He's had his chance to speak his mind. He's gone out of his way to force us to get his e-mails. He's been quite vocal about how he would like to make us wish we had never been born, and that he hopes we rot in hell and how we all deserve to die or end up in wheelchairs or shot. Why should we bother to listen or believe his sincerity after hearing him spout such abuse, Jan? Do you honestly think he's a changed man because his ISP and mail server and his own mailing list got mad at him over the way he harassed us? Why? Did he remove the page where he posts contact information about brinnellers and urges people to harass them? Why not? What's stopping him from making a show of good faith and asking us to leave him alone? After all, we were doing so before he started spamming us.
Whatever your individual differneces or opinions are, whatever has happned in
the past, recognize that this is an attmpt at resolution.
I doubt his sincerity. Does the above list of offenses adequately explain why?
I believe Jeroen to be sincere, and I would like to add my own caution.
Please try and put whatever is in the past, in the past.
We have been trying to do this since he was removed from Brin-L. We don't have a problem doing so. We have not been the ones trying to wage a one-man war against Brin-L's listowners and listmembers.
You know, I can't speak for anyone else here, but I did not complain to freeler until he threatened me. Then I forwarded my entire correspondance with him from the freeler.nl addy to their abuse address _asking them_ if they agreed with me that what he had written was harassment. So _they_ made the final decision based on what he had written. I also asked them to take action so he would cease sending unwanted e-mails to those of us on his 'recipient list'. Judging by this post, they did so.
It is also completely disingenuous of him to complain that *we* have been attacking him -- verbally or otherwise -- when *he is the only one flooding our mailboxes despite repeated requests that he not do so*. I repeat, why should we believe his motives or sincerity now? What has he done to earn our trust?
Jeroen has shown greate dignity in the words he has written below. Should he
not also be given the opertunity to show honesty?
He wants to show dignity? He wants to prove his sincerity? He wants to show honesty? OK, let *him* take the first step.
Let him show good faith and remove the page on Brin-L.com where he posts contact information for some of our oldest members and our listowners? Why can't he do that now? Why does he need to continue to threaten us when he wants us to do something? Why is he incapable of removing the page and **asking us** to leave him in peace? IMO, the only reason I can think of is that he really has no intention of removing the page or ceasing his harassment.
You may want the order of envents to be differnt. You may require an appology. But ask yourself seriously what differnce these petty temporal nuances would make a few days from now, a week from now, or even a year from now.
I don't give a damn about an apology from him. From his previous actions it's quite obvious he doesn't mean them anyway.
I want his threats and demands to myself and other brinnellers out of my mailbox, their blogs and off the brin-l.com website. The only acceptable way he should do so is unconditionally. Until then, I'll say whatever the hell I want, onlist or off. I held my tongue after he left until he threatened me. I will not do so any longer.
Let him take down the page and _permanently_ stop harassing us and I'll never mention his name anywhere, ever again. Until then, I'll continue to do whatever I have to in order to stop his harassment and threats.
Jon
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