> -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Jan Coffey
... > I believe Jeroen to be sincere, and I would like to add my own caution. Sincerity is not the only issue in a situation like this. I don't think a community is obligated to tolerate someone's anti-social behavior because they are making a sincere effort not to be anti-social. A failed sincere effort is still a failure and is still anti-social. I do believe that sometimes a separation is needed and appropriate. The main issue, as far as I'm concerned, is the person's behavior. Perhaps a sincere effort can be recognized by substantial change in behavior, in which case a sincere effort might be "enough" to make a difference... but it is the behavior that counts. My concerns about Jeroen have to do with behavior that appears to me to be manipulative, attention-seeking, blaming, blackmailing and personalizing. I don't see any change in those in the message Jan forwarded to the list. > Someone told me off-list "No one is out to get you! Just leave > them alone, > and they'll leave you alone". While I have my doubts about the first part > (nobody being out to get me) being true, I'm willing to give the > second part > a try: I'll leave you alone if you leave me alone. This is not reasonable. We have left him alone. If he's hoping no one will ever mention him again in a negative context, that's wishful thinking, at best. Living in community means being stuck with one's past. This seems like attention-seeking to me. > This means > that you will > cease complaining to any and all companies I do business with > (ISP's, hosting > companies, etcetera) I complained to freeler.nl because he was sending me dozens of unwanted e-mails. I'm not going to promise not to protect myself from that sort of abuse. I see this as childish manipulation. > and that you will refrain from any more > Jeroen-bashing > in any form (on-list, on websites, weblogs, etcetera). In return I will > disappear from old-Brin-L entirely and leave you alone. Then, in > a few weeks, > once I'm confident that you're keeping your end of the bargain, I'll also > remove my er... opinion piece... about certain Brinellers from my website. Manipulative blackmail. We have a right to be left alone without having to make any promises, etc. > I recommend that you accept this offer -- otherwise things can > and probably > will only escalate even further (no, that's not a threat, that's insight > into how conflicts can escalate) and nobody stands to gain anything from > that. That is a threat, unquestionably, in my eyes. > Don't demand apologies; this is the best offer you'll get. > Accept it, > then we can go our separate ways and get on with our lives. What is being "offered" is not Jeroen's to offer, since he is offering to "allow" us to be free of his anti-social behavior -- abusive mails, etc. He cannot give us something that we already have. This strikes me as grandiose self-importance. > The other alternative of course is to bury this and let me return, but I > doubt Nick will ever agree to that. This is personalization. I believe it is clear that the unhappiness in the community goes is deep and wide. > And no, this is not the proposal of someone who's desperately trying to > save his Internet access and on-line presence; this is the proposal of > someone who tries to end this before it escalates to a point where people > start suffering some very serious real-life consequences (no, > that's not a > threat either, that's insight). Again a threat. I have had very little to say about this situation, but decided that I would offer these thoughts in hopes that they might help us to decide what kind of language would indicate a real change in behavior and attitudes. For those who might be wondering how I've handled the unwanted e-mails, I did not respond to any of them. In fact, I did nothing at all until the volume became more than I cared to have to delete, then I complained to [EMAIL PROTECTED] And that's how I intend to deal with such behavior in the future -- totally ignore it unless it crosses a threshold of annoyance, distraction, abuse or whatever, and then take it to the appropriate authorities. Nick _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
