----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Gabriel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Killer Bs Discussion'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 8:49 AM Subject: RE: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On > > Behalf Of John D. Giorgis > > Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:28 PM > > To: Killer Bs Discussion > > Subject: Catholicism Re: james ossuary a fake - scientists > > > > At 10:04 PM 6/20/2003 -0500 The Fool wrote: > > >No I just think catholics are hyprocritical. They profess to follow > > >christ, but it is mary for whom they worship. > > > > A couple questions: > > > > 1) How many times is Mary mentioned in the normal Catholic Mass (which > > Catholics are obligated to attend weekly)? > > Interesting. I have no idea, but I'd like to know the answer and would > appreciate your posting it. While we're at it, what about the number of > mentions/prayers devoted to Mary during Penance, Baptism, Confirmation, > First Communion and the Sacrament of Matrimony? What about > Assumption/Crowning during the 'Glorious Mysteries' portion of the > Rosary decade? > > > 2) How many instances of worship of Mary are included in a typical > decade > > of the rosary (the most common Catholic Marian devotion)? > > Anywhere from 3 to 10 repetitions of Hail Mary and, I believe, 1 Hail > Holy Queen. As I mentioned above, there are also several sections of > the decade devoted to Mary. > > The text of Hail Holy Queen: > Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy, hail, our life, our sweetness and our > hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve: to thee do we > send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn > then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after > this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus, O > merciful, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary! Amen. > > (Taken from http://www.webdesk.com/catholic/prayers/hailholyqueen.html) > > Are you saying that Mary is not also worshipped or prayed to? > Considering all of the prayers and mentions we're discussing, I'd > definitely disagree with that. And you would be wrong. Very wrong. In the "One True Church"<G> Mary is not deified, but being the "Mother Of God" she sits close at the right hand of God in heaven and has influence as an "Advocate". What this clearly shows is the influence of the fuedal (for lack of a better word) society upon religion. This "Royal" meme permeates *all* christian sects. Watch a little christian TV if you doubt me, it is repeated endlessly so that the meme is strongly reinforced. The upshot is that Heaven is basically a large royal court. This shows most strongly in older Catholic doctrine where "members of the court" may be prayed to (addressed is actually a more accurate description) to ask for intercession on someones behalf. Mary and the saints are not "worshiped" even though they are prayed too. Any claim to the contrary is to say that catholicism is multi-theistic. what would that then say about protestantism which sprang out of catholicism? > > > >They profess to adhere to > > >the bible > > > > I have never heard a Catholic profess this, and neither the word nor > the > > conept of the "Bible" never appears in the Catholic Profession of > Faith, > > nor in the Catholic baptismal promises. > > > > Really? So why do you read it and say prayers from it? What purpose > does the Catholic bible serve and what is its value? While protestants have the bible and only the bible, catholics have a much broader and richer heratige of written literature. There is quite a bit of "apochryphia" that influences catholic thinking, but to truely understand this, one must consider the origins of the book we call the Bible. The meme that claims the Bible as the only source of christian truth is a protestant myth that totally ignores the truth of the Bibles origins. > > A side question. Why is it that Mary is always seen in a glass window or > something? Why not Jesus? You have never ever been inside a catholic church have you? Visit a catholic church or two and rid yourself of such silly misunderstandings. You really have a lot to learn of the rich culture of the catholic church. > > http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0612virgin-sighting12-ON.html > > According to the article, these people believe they are 'communicating' > their prayers to Mary. And your point is? xponent Controversial Enough For You? Maru rob _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
