--- Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 07:07 PM 6/22/03 -0400, Erik Reuter wrote: > >On Sun, Jun 22, 2003 at 06:02:27PM -0500, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: > > > > > To which I have to respond that if anyone had witnessed and > > > experienced what I have witnessed and experienced, the only logical > > > result would be to believe. > > > >Of course not. The rational conclusion would be that your mind played > >tricks on you, since you cannot demonstrate it to anyone else. > > > > I'm not going to go into any more detail, because as I said before it would > > be only hearsay and I could be lying about it, but a number of the > experiences I am describing learning of something in very specific detail > which I had no other way of knowing about at the time and had no control > over, which later turned out to be true. Good > guessing? Perhaps. Coincidence? Perhaps. Repeated countless > times? Less likely. As I said, though, since you weren't there to witness > > any of those events, you have nothing but my word on them. If you wish to > find out whether or not I am telling the truth on this matter, you will > have to find out on your own.
I am curious. How do you know it wasn't Satan?
A very good question.
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." (Matthew 7:15-20)
This is also relevant to our discussion about a week ago on spiritual experiences:
From a message to the list dated 07:47 AM 6/12/03 -0400:
[I hope I have restored the attributions correctly. If not, I apologize.]
Deborah Harrell wrote:
How many here who consider themselves religious, spiritual, or otherwise somehow connected to the Divine have had that feeling of "universal connectedness" or "sacred presence" (drug experiences disqualified in my book) ...
David Hobby wrote: But traditional methods such as fasting, sleep deprivation, frenetic dancing, sensory deprivation, self-flagellation, etc are all O.K.? Unfair!
Ronn! Blankenship wrote: Personally, I tend to give a lot less credibility to spiritual experiences which reportedly occur under such conditions than those which occur unasked-for in the middle of an otherwise normal day to a person with no history or subsequent diagnosis of mental illness when that person is neither hungry, thirsty, fatigued, or under the influence of substances legal or illegal . . .
Julia Thompson wrote: If there is a "spirituality gene" and some people are lacking, if they feel deprived, might they be more inclined toward drug experiences to achieve such feelings?
Ronn! Blankenship wrote: Perhaps, but how can one be sure those are genuine spiritual experiences (assuming at least for the sake of this discussion that such experiences are possible) rather than the effects of the drugs?
David Hobby wrote: What makes such spiritual experiences more genuine than others? The way I look at it, HAVING the experience is the important part. I agree, if one has a spiritual experience in atypical circumstances one might be able to discount it, saying "It was the drugs, man." But that is up to the individual. One can always deny such an experience, or take it to heart. It's a choice. Is your argument that a spiritual experience that happens without any obvious trigger is more "miraculous"? I don't buy that. A skeptic could always attribute it to something like "undiagnosed focal epilepsy", and discount it anyway.
My (unposted until now) answer to David's question:
What makes such spiritual experiences more genuine than others?
is of course that if one thinks one has learned something from the experience, one would want assurance that the experience was genuine so that the knowledge gained is genuine.
-- Ronn! :)
God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam… God bless America! My home, sweet home.
-- Irving Berlin (1888-1989)
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