On 29 Jun 2003 at 14:02, Erik Reuter wrote: > On Mon, Jun 23, 2003 at 07:46:46PM -0500, Dan Minette wrote:
> > Mine basis for morality is religious, and its that humans are > > created > > in the image and likeness of God, and must be treated in a manner > > that is consistent with this. Human rights, the Golden Rule, etc. > > all flow from this postulate as theorems. So, my assumption is also > > quite simple. > > No, it is NOT so simple. William already replied to that: > > Even if man is 'created in the image and likeness of God' that says > nothing about how men should treat each others without an additional > assumption that 'those created in the image and likeness of God must > be treated in such and such ways'. So you might as well ditch the > 'image and likeness of God' part and go directly to the 'must be > treated in such and such ways' part. God is a redundant assumption > that adds nothing to the line of argument. > > I would add that although the concept of god IS redundant to that > argument, it may have been useful in persuading people to the 'must be > treated in such and such ways' point of view. But I question its > usefulness for that purpose today in places where we are enlightened > enough not to need fear and superpower to motivate and comfort us. Are > we not mature enough to persuade people to morality by honest > argument, trusting them to make their choices with their eyes open, > rather than tricking them into believing in fairy tales and fearing > boogey-men? > Sorry, I'm with Heinlien on this one - Man has no inherent moral sense. Genes allways cause "selfish" behavoir. The memes (remembering that memes can be selfish or altruistic) for society are a crious mix of altruism and selfishness, and the interplay of them is what defines "conventional" morality within a society. I honestly don't care if someone reaches a set of values via secular or religious means. I only care with what I have to deal. Also, absolute Intollerance of any kind of beliefs which are generally accepted in society looks just the same to me - fanaticism. Which is dangerous. (how it is dangerous and what it is dangerous TO is another issue, but basically it's corrosive to the core memes of society as praticed today. Today's "society" is a very fragile construct which is running on inertia - and out of time) Andy Dawn Falcon _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
