In a message dated 2/13/2004 8:13:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > >However, your view seems to me to be a bit of a simplistic one. > >Political winds change, different groups with different opinions > move > >in and out of power. Just because one set of leaders allows a > >practice to be legal, does not mean that the next group of leaders > >will accept this. Yes it did build to the breaking point, in much > the > >same way as what happened to the aristocracy in France. Revolutions > >have a tendency to be grotesquely violent. (This is one reason > >democracy is so important.) > > > >The question then becomes, was this done on purpose to build > support > >for the persecution, or was the persecution a result. One describes > a > >dastardly plot, the other simply history. But knowing which it was > is > >really not important to understanding the beliefs and feelings of > the > >common gentile at the time. They _were_ getting screwed, and they > >knew (at least in part) who was doing it to them. This was not a > case > >of blind racial hatred of the sort you get from modern skinheads, > and > >it was not the racial superiority white slave owners felt. It was a > >class of people who felt they had been wronged by another class. In > >their simple ignorance they attributed the wrong-doing to a race, > or > >religion, rather than to individuals. Humans can be very dumb and > >very horrible in this way. > > ___reply from Bemmzim > >Once again this is the most absurd line of reaoning possible. The > jews were > >hated and the whole jewish banker thing was just an excuse for most > people. > > You assume that Millions of average people had a blind hatred, and > had found justification any way they could, simply to persecute a > group they had blind hatred for. > In fact millions of people did hate the jews. It was the official position of the Church and most states for over 1000 years. Why not read a bit of history before you continue to make remarks like this. Try Johnson's "History of the Jews" or "Constantines Sword" > That sounds a bit like raceism to me. Have you not vilified a whole > people? It isn't racism by the way but if you are asking me if christians bear collective guilt for what was done to the jews over and over again throughout the west, well yes. Does that mean that Christians need to go around apologizing to Jews. Of course not. Does it mean that they have a moral obligation to avoid statements and actions that put jews at risk or in fear; yes absolutely. > > >By > >the way no one was getting screwed. The jews did not loan money at > outragous > >interest rates. > > That is besides the point. At the time lending at all was considered > sinfull. Not only that but it introduced time value of money. > Basicaly then, if one did not participate in what they considered to > be sinfull, there money would become worth less and less. To the > average person of the time, this looked like theivery. For if their > money was loosing value, where was it going? They were being forced > to sin, or have money taken away. I would suggest to you that anti-semitism had very little to do with the notion of money lending. When the crusaders stopped in Mainse in Germany and demanded that the jews convert or die, that was not about money lending, It was about burning woman and children who refused to convert. When jews were tortured and murdered in the Spanish Inquisition that was not about money lending. When the spanish jews were kicked out of spain and denied entry into italy unless they converted, when fransican monks taunted starving jews with bread if they would convert that was not about money lending. When the condoned the kidnapping of a Jewish child (keeping him from his parents ) in the 19th century that was not about money. When Pope Pious did not lift a finger when the Nazis marched jews in frount of the Vatican City in World War II that was not about money. When the US military command refused to bomb Auschwitz even they knew that the Germans were murdering jews in large numbers and despite the pleas of american jewery that was not about money lending. It is about anti-semtism promoted or at least condoned by organized christianity. > > >They were the necessary glue of international commerce. They > >were able to do this because jews were widely dispersed spoke the > same language > >and felt a sense of community that allowed for safe and fair trade. > Now why > >was this? Because jews were intrinsically smarter about money more > greedy. > > Are you saying that Jews are or were some how supperior? sounds like > raceism again. Yes they did not have some silly religious restriction > on the way and manner the handled money, they also had a strong > comunity sense. Yes they made more money in this way than others. > Does that make them supperior? Are you serious? The rest of the statement went on to say that this is hogwash. The jews did what they had to do because they were allowed to do nothing else. Do you understand that the vast majority of jews lived in grinding poverty throughout most of their history. A few jews earned a lot of money (only to have it taken away on occasion on the whim of king or priest) but most were incredibly poor. Afterall how many bankers do think there were. > > > >Here > >is another explanation. The jews never assimilated because the > christians > >would not allow them to. They spoke the same language and > maintained the same > >customs because they were excluded from the larger christian > society. Look at > >history. > >Whenever jews were allowed to assimilate they did so. Not all but > many. > >In the process they either converted or lost there attachment to > ancient > >rituals. The sense of community did not disappear because there was > and is always a > >place where jews were persecuted for being jews. > > > A people might start > believing that they have been so wronged for so long, that anything > they do in retaliation, or frustration is justified. What is worse, a > large number of that group may simply do nothing and let it happen. > > But of course the jews have never behaved this way as a people. Even in > Israel where too many people are intemperate there is no general belief that > jews are above moral reproach. It is part of our tradition not to believe this. > _______________________________________________ > _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
