--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "ritu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dunno - I still don't get why everyone is so very eager to hate the > third party rather than the actual thief which carried out the entire > displacement of property. That's just the way humans work. > And as for the criminal bit, well, it isn't some shady, underground, > fly-by-the-night illegal operation. These contracts follow the laws of > two countries and are in tune with the concept of globalisation. No actualy it is not in line with the laws we ~use~ to have. Or at least what was expected when these companies were given tax breaks. We all voted for that becouse we thought it woudl creat more jobs for ~us~. W knew we would have to make up the difference, but we did it anyway becouse it was what was good for our country. The companies are not playing fair, or nice. So now we want laws to make sure they do what is right for the US first. > > I am not justifying that emotional response, only pointing it out, > > and asking what should be done about it. > > And I am just asking what these people would like the Indians to do. > Insist on being paid the salary > of their US counterparts? Bingo! And if you don't we should make tax laws which equalize it. Not only is it good for the US worker, but it would be good for the government coffers. > > >From the out of work american's perspective Indea is steeling our > > Jobs, and they know it. I have heard representatives from Indean > > companies say and I quoate, "I can hve 200 developers on this > > toomarow for the price of one of your workers here. You can get rid > > yourself of these expensive development staff emediatly." > > > > How can we not hear this and not get angry and feel like we are > > being robbed? > > Oh, there is no way you can not get angry. But I thought value for money > was a basic tenet of capitalism and robbery involved coercion. No, becouse we are not in an open market, it's not true capitalism. >To use > your previous example of a car, it is like one mechanic accusing the > other of robbery just because the latter offered a lower price and wooed > the former's customers away. That leaves out so much infomration. Besides dumping realy cheep product on the market, or undercutting for a loss is illigal in ~this~ country. > As far as I can make out, the salient point here is that a choice was > offered and that the second mechanic neither used > guns/threats/blackmail, nor got into the car and drove it away. Your forgetting, that we built these compnaies, our tax dollars and society have supproted the ability of these companies to be what they are, they are ~our~ companies. We have supported them and fostered them, and worked for them and built them for ~our~ society. If we thought that they would simply abandon America we would never have given them tax breaks, we would never have allowed them the kind of freedoms to grow, we wouldn't have worked the increadably long hours (in comparison ot our contrymen & women) over the past decade to make the US technology industry what it is today. Why would we do that if they are just going to rob us of the benifit, You don't get up on a scafelding and build a town hall and paint the ceeling if the Forman is going to pull the scafelding down, and he's not going to let you even come to town hall. > About that Indian chap you quoted above, the only way he was telling the > truth was if each US developer is paid around USD 60,000 pm. Is that the > going rate in the US? No, for a very poorly paid, just out of School developer who can't show that they know how to code maybe. Actualy scratch that, it would have to be a QA trainee (like the sit and play video games and complain about it kind) with no degree. The low end rate is about 120,000 for someone with 4 year experience and a CS degree. Of course right now, people are taking temp work for 60 or 70, but you can't live on that here. You couldn't even pay for shelter and food for a family of 3 on that, much less have traspertation to and from work. Non-skilled labor like washing toilets is 60. > The other > part of the reason being the backlash being felt in US and Europe. Yea well, like I said it's NOT an open economy, you have every right to try and produce your own companies which then sell their product to us. But when you start doing the same work for slavery wages, and selling the work, not the product, there are 2 problems. First you are SLAVES. Second, you make enemies of our people, and believe it or not, our people really do have the power here eventualy. The governement may lag our opinions and beliefs, but in then end, India may find that they are an enemy. Not the goverment doing wrong kind of enemy, but the people hate kind. If you have so much trouble finding jobs for a decent living then I have one very important bit of advice. If you can't afford the well being of a child, then don't have one. It's not advice that I myself have not taken to hart, so I don't feel the least bit rude in making it to others. > > Do you see, we are breading classism...but then I guess that is > > nothing to Indea, where classism is common place. > > Don't you think the last comment was a bit below the belt? Not at all, if the market were open, the first thing anyone here would require is equal treatment under the law. You would have to do away with your class system to achive that. So until you do, there is no open echonomy. And don't tell me differnt, I see the class system at work right here in my own workplace. This is a kind of raceism that has creeped into the american workplace and it discusts me. Especialy when, for some reason, non Indian americans ended up at the bottom. > Besides being > inaccurate, at least insofar as it suggests that the US society has been > class-free one until all this happened? No it doesn't, but see above. We do not have an indoctrinated class system. We may have had slavery, but..wait, from the sound of what kind of wages you will work for it seems we still do. > But you are right, it is nothing to India. Not because class divisions > are common here [they are, as are caste, communal, regional and economic > divisions] but because it is not our problem. cast class, slavery, same difference from my perspective. And it is your problem, becouse unless you ware willing to open your contry to an open economy, and play by the same rules as the west, you are SLAVES, and your MASTERS are steeling our jobs. >All the Indian companies > are doing is offering the US companies an alternative. The US companies > are free to not take it. I hope that makes you feel better when you go to bed at night. .... The more I talk about this. The more even ~my~ emotions begin to spill over into a dehumanizing mode. It's very hard to stay level headed and fight the desire to lash out. The more I think about what is being done to my society the less I care about any other. If I am feeling this way, how must those other I know, the ones who have abandond all their Indian friends, how must they feel? What about the ones who have lost their jobs? I bet they hate. I bet they no-longer think of the Indean people as human. It makes me sad and disgusted and it gives me a feeling of dispare. > > Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe this will all pass, but right now, I m > > hearing strong raceism from those who use to be liberal, I'm being > > told not to bring my indian friends along, I am seeing fewer tables > > with Indeans and Americans eating together, Indean resturants that > > are empty of all but Indean patrons. I'm hearing reports of Indean > > kids getting beat up by other American kids who's parent are out of > > work. It's getting starting to get ugly. > > > > Am I angry? well, yes, but I still have a job. Do I think this > > raceism is right? No. Do I think that the Indean people owe the > > american worker, ...the guy telling my boss she can fire me and all > > my associates and replace us with some Indean sweat shop, yes, he > > owes the american worker, > > Okay. What do you think he owes the American worker? Not to make the > offer? Or not to make the offer in the hearing of the workers? Or a > percentage of his profits? Or something else? Well, he can have his slaves if he wants. It's not my country, it's not my society, he, and those like him can be your masters if that is what you really want, but when he comes over here hocking slave trade, then pardon me if I am repulsed, and pardon me if I beleive what he is doing is theft. I have this one vocation that I worked hard to aquire. I paid a fortune for my education, and I worked my way up from nothing, from washing dishes and scraping toilets to have what I have now. It's the american dream. But if he thinks he is going to come over here and offer my same vocation to be done by slaves, then yea, I think he is steeling something, becouse In my country he wouldn't be allowed to have slaves. In my country what he is doing is illigal, only he is doing it in ~your~ country. So sure, I am appoled at ~your~ country as well, for letting him do it. > > Am I going to > > vote Republican in the next election. Hardly. > > I'm rooting for Kerry anyway. You need to decide if you are American or Indian. You either make a plege of aligence to this country or you align yourself with India, you should not have the option of having it both ways. > > I tensions rose > > between Indea and Pakistan would I be infavor of helping indea out. > > Doubt it. > > And Jan, how would that be any different from the USA's subcontinental > policy over the last 57 years? :) good point. Like I said, we are a ficle people. _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
