I snipped some stuff. I just want to address some of what was in the
post.
Dan Minette wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JDG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2004 8:27 PM
> Subject: Archbishop Chaput of Denver
>
> >As Catholics, we believe that the Eucharist is not just a symbol or a
> >sacred meal or an important ritual expressing our community. Rather it is,
> >quite literally, the body and blood of Jesus Christ. It's His living
> >presence in our midst. This is what distinguishes the Catholic faith from
> >nearly every Protestant denomination. In fact, it's one of the central
> >Catholic beliefs that the Protestant Reformation eventually "protested."
>
> That's not as obvious as you make out. I've discussed this at length, both
> at the seminary where I was taking classes and with Presbyterian clergy.
> The real difficulty the Protestant church has is with the use of
> Aristotelean philosophy in the description. I asked several times, and was
> told that this formulation is now conisdered just one of many imperfect
> descriptions of the Eucharist....with the limits of human language
> requiring that any description fall far short of the wonder of the reality.
>
> Here's the difference between the Catholic and Presbyterian views:
>
> Catholic: Communion has the real, non-physical presence of Jesus
>
> Presbyterian: Communion has the real spiritual presence of Jesus.
>
> I really don't think the difference is enough for us to conclude that we
> can turn other's away from Jesus's communion.
[I'm ignoring the last sentence, but leaving it in.]
Transubstantiation.
My understanding, and I'm sure one of you will correct me if I'm wrong,
is that Catholics believe in transubstantiation. (Lutherans, too. At
least, that was the position of Luther....) Many Protestant
denominations do not. Including Presbyterians. At least, that's my
understanding. (I'm a little removed from the Presbyterian heritage my
father grew up with.)
> >What's the lesson for Catholics? Fifty years ago, too many of us avoided
> >receiving Communion out of an excessive fear of our own sins. Today, far
> >too many of us receive Communion unthinkingly, reflexively, with no sense
> >of the urgent need for our own self-examination, humility and conversion.
> >Worse, too many Catholics receive the body and blood of Christ even when
> >they ignore or deny the teachings of His Church.
>
> Or, they deny that the hieararcy control's his church It may be helpful to
> read Macabees here, John. If you accept Macabees I and II as scripture,
> then you pretty well have to accept that the Lord does not always stay with
> his origional choice for leadership. The wind blows where the wind will;
> not where the Vatican buracurats tell it to.
If you go through confession and absolution, in your heart, that's what
counts for Communion, isn't it? So, are your sins between you and God
or between you and God and other parties?
> It sounds as though you think most church going Catholics are not real
> Catholics. That would have included my uncle, who was a priest for > 50
> years, with over 25 of them as a missionary. Are you really arguing that
> most Catholics really are Protestants and need to go?
>
> Finally, I should correct you on my viewpoint. I am a follower of the
> Erasmus path in the reformation, not that of Luther and Calvin. I delight
> in bringing up the Catholic understanding in Reformed settings; talking
> about Luther throwing books out of the bible, for example. :-)
I have some familiarity with Luther.
I have some familiarity with Calvin.
I'm not really familiar with Erasmus. Nutshell description? URL to
something I could read in a reasonable period of time? Book
recommendation which I might get to sometime in the next 10 years?
Thanks!
Julia
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