From: Deborah Harrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Karmic slappage (was: Phone home?) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 13:31:12 -0700 (PDT)
<snippage throughout, marked by ....> > Travis Edmunds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What we have here Deb (would you rather Debbi?),
That's what my dad calls me. ;)
Ah...ok...but which would you prefer?
> >From: Deborah Harrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Travis Edmunds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> the only reason that I > spouted - "It's all based on the > teachings of Jesus" (paraphrase) - was to point out > hypocrisy as I see it, > running rampant throughout christianity, and > specifically throughout > catholicism. For example - you just stated that > church doctrine has been > essentially fabricated (see CREATED) in the ensuing > centuries after the > church was founded, by people....with their own > agendas. Yet the catholic faithful en masse still > fervently follows that > doctrine in direct conflict with what the catholic > church actively teaches > today - which is that their belief system and > ceremonial structure has it�s > roots in the actual word of God, which of course > comes from the teachings of > Jesus, who as we all know IS God. Now I don't know > about you, but that > smells like hypocrisy to me.
I think that the vast majority of the faithful have no idea how much of what they believe (of church doctrine) has no basis in Scripture or what Jesus said [I'm going to dispense with the 'what he reportedly said' bit for brevity], so no, I don't think that they're being hypocritical.
Neither do I. I was actually talking about the administration.
> So, this all begs the question - Are you gonna > follow my lead?
<raised eyebrow and grin that fails to be suppressed> Since when does a Lead Mare follow a colt? <runs away laughing>
But I'm bigger now!!
it is through my own innate> skepticism that I reclaim or rather, attain, some > sort of belief structure > that holds true for me and the way I think. A belief > structure where endless > possibilities of endless possibilities abound, and > where I - 'simply > understand that I am human and prone to > imperfection, and want others to > acknowledge that about me and about themselves as > well' - which in my own > way, is an apology of sorts. Or perhaps more > accurately, a defensive posture. One that serves to >cover my own tracks if you will. Then again, it may > just be what I believe...
Now if you were Kerry, the Republicans would just say that you flip-flopped on this... ;)
What if I'm human? (as opposed to a politician).
<singing> "This aint movies, and we aint heros"
>>....The major problem I have with it [karma] is the > >corollary that if a person is in dire straits, it's > >their own or former self's fault; that leads to > >apathy, stagnation and resignation or complacency. > As a social construct it's quite a stabilizing meme, > but > >it discourages innovation and promotes a fatalistic > >viewpoint (IMHO). [I think the concept of > >Purgatory serves a similar societal function.]
> That's interesting. And I agree. Consider this > however - If you think that > purgatory serves a societal function similar to that > of karma, then what > does that say about christianity in general? For > purgatory is but one branch of a deep-rooted tree.
It is not a tenet of Protestant denominations, AFAIK; I don't know what the Greek Orthodox say about it.
I'm talking about catholicism. Besides, if purgatory has nothing to do with those religions then it serves no real purpose to bring them up in this discussion. Unless of course I'm missing something...
But to toss out _all_ spiritual beliefs, influence, and practices because of the misuse of some is equally simplistic. Somewhere in that turbid and noisome bathwater is a baby!
I'm not sure if that was a sleight towards me or not. It can be taken either way.
Anyway, I agree with you.
> It's like I have said before - downplaying any one > facet of organized > religion can serve only to disparage the whole. The > same goes for people who > 'follow Jesus' (perfectly acceptable) as opposed to > following the church. It's all intertwined!
I disagree.
Of course you disagree. That's the whole point. The ultimate hypocrisy so to speak! The only problem is that you have to adhere to *my* viewpoint in order to see it. And that is that all facets of a particular religion are interrelated with the whole. Which of course they are.
Think on this however...what does that say about organized religion and all it's various branches, as a universal institution? Or as singular entities?
-Travis "pressed for time" Edmunds
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