From: Deborah Harrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: [L3] RE: Indivisible (was: Karmic slappage) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 13:48:41 -0700 (PDT)
> Travis Edmunds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >From: Deborah Harrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Within the confines of religion they tend to view > the world through their > god as opposed to *with* their god. They cannot seem > to escape the nutshell > of their particular religion, and to think > critically as it were. However, I > would argue that if one isn't fanatical about his or > her religion, then they > aren't being 'true' to their religion.
Yet all of my friends who profess an organized religion as 'theirs' deny that they are - or 'ought to be' - fanatical about it. They have found what makes sense to them, and seems best to them, but are wise enought to understand that one size does not fit all.
A very sensible approach. One that I personally agree with, and one that perhaps everyone should endeavor to emulate.
*You* want them to be fanatics
In a very real sense, religion dictates that they should be.
What I think is frustrating to you (and many of the rest of us!) is at the heart of belief in a Divinity: if You're there, *gimme a clear sentence, dang it!*
A completely different topic of discussion (IMO), and one that I was not personally attempting to get into. But yes, very frustrating indeed.
> ....So why would a god lay out principles to > adhere to in the first place?
To keep the world from descending back into Chaos. To test for obedience. To keep people living harmoniously together.
<smiling at the 'indulgent one'>
'Twas merely a rhetorical question. Used to point out contradictions within contradictions, as I see them.
I ask, 'who says these rules come from the Divine, and what proof do they offer?'
If one has such questions brewing in their mind, then a mug full of organized religion would not be nearly as palatable as a cup of personal belief. Hence, if one prefers the homemade brew, by all means drink it. But it cannot be equated with the store-bought product as it's just not the same.
Going in circles again...
As for an afterlife, if there is one, I have no control over what it entails, and furthermore it is irrelevant to what occurs here and now. I can only influence what is around me _now_.
In a roundabout way, that perfectly describes my organized religion/hypocrisy standpoint. Or at least the fundamentals of where I come from, in standing behind my own views.
> I don't mean to come off child-like in they way I'm > thinking here. It's just > that I can't get my head around the fundamental > premise of my little > 'conflict of interest'. Frankly I never could, and > perhaps never will.
I'm going to come off as an ageist here -again- because I went through a long period in which I wanted specific directions, clearly and unequivocally stated.
We're not getting generic here are we?
As a side note, I'd like to let you know though that I appreciate the experience that your words must entail. Not meaning of course that I'm gonna necessarily agree with you...<smile>
What I have had to adapt to is the silence of uncertainty, despite the recurrent sense of a Presence.
The silence of uncertainty is a silence that screams in my ears daily. As for the sense of a 'presence'...I'm just not sure. I have however been in religious settings as part of the congregation, where I felt something. But I would not ascribe 'a presence/THE Presence' to it. Merely a sense of communion with those around me, mingled with a break from everyday life, brought forth a 'something'. But such can be found at any 'gathering' of sorts. Divinity? Herd mentality? Perhaps even finding God and not knowing it! For the quest for God may be inside ourselves. And what better way to find 'it', than gathering? And for a common purpose no less. Be it belief in a specific faith. A shared affinity for a particular rock band. A family reunion even!
Ah! But do you hear it? The silence of uncertainty beckons...
It is neither easy nor particularly reassuring, but it is...exasperatingly hopeful.
In my personal writing career, I have this project that I dump random ideas into. One such idea took the form of a quote from yours truly:
"Optimism is, in most cases, a complete disregard for the truth."
I consider myself a realist. At least as much as I can be. And while I think that the above quote holds true more often than not, I am inclined to be optimistic, to be hopeful, for the sake of my own sanity. Yet I constantly ask myself when being the least bit hopeful about something, if I'm not perhaps going overboard.
Thay say aim high. That way you won't hit as low. I say aim low. That way you haven't got so far to fall.
We are of course individuals. Each and every one of us finds some element of happiness, contentedness in different things. And if it works, well I guess it works now doesn't it?
(You have no idea how long it took me to find those words, but now I think they are as accurate as I could possibly be.)
Hey! Thanks for sharing.
-Travis
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