----- Original Message ----- From: "Nick Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 12:41 PM Subject: Re: Who does GWB think he is?
> Dan Minette wrote: > > > But, here is the question that has faced Christians for ~1600 years. It is > > acceptable to fight to protect innocents? > > I don't think that's the question at hand, although it's a fine > question, one that belongs in every consideration of use of force. It certainly sounds as if you imply it with your comments, including the comments below. So, it sounds as thought the use of force is occasionally > Aside from the fact that the war in Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11, > the question today, as I see it, is whether we end terrorism by > imagining that we can "wipe our evil-doers" or shall we agree with Jim > Wallis that unless we "drain the swamps of injustice in which the > mosquitoes of terrorism breed, we will never overcome the terrorist threat." But, this implies that those who use terror do so against those who opress them, and do so out of reaction to that opression. By no stretch of the imagination was Bin Laden opressed. He easily could have lived on an income that is many times yours, mine, Gautam's, Davids, JDGs combined. He is the son of a family with billions in wealth. If you look at those involved in terror groups, you do not...for the most part, see Africans living hand to mouth. Rather you see, on average, people who are educated and relatively well off. Further, while the government of the terrorists are often opressive, the terrorists would wish to set up even more repressive governments, with them at the head. Now, that doesn't say that a Middle East filled with liberal democracies would not undercut terrorists. Most people, including Bush, would agree to that. But, I don't see how the West treating the people of the Middle East better will change things all that much. As it stands, ex-pats are third or fourth on the totem poll in the Mid-East....depending on how you slice it. The totem poll is: 1) Citizens of the country 2) Non-Palestinian Arabs 3) Palestinians 4) ex-pats 5) "Pakis" The attitude of #4 is not critical. > I don't hear God calling on me to wipe out evil-doers, but I certainly > hear a call to love mercy, do justice and walk humbly! So, we are called to simply pray in response to evil. Was it wrong to stop the genocide in the Balkins? Would it be wrong to stop it in the Sudan? Are Christians required to be passive, worrying only about their own sins? > The beginning of Psalm 37, where the word "evil-doers" shows up: > > 1 [1] Do not fret because of evil men > or be envious of those who do wrong; > 2 for like the grass they will soon wither, > like green plants they will soon die away. > > 3 Trust in the LORD and do good; > dwell in the land and enjoy safe pasture. > 4 Delight yourself in the LORD > and he will give you the desires of your heart. > > 5 Commit your way to the LORD ; > trust in him and he will do this: > 6 He will make your righteousness shine like the dawn, > the justice of your cause like the noonday sun. > > 7 Be still before the LORD and wait patiently for him; > do not fret when men succeed in their ways, > when they carry out their wicked schemes. > > 8 Refrain from anger and turn from wrath; > do not fret-it leads only to evil. > 9 For evil men will be cut off, > but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land. So, what I hear from this is that we should let evil happen in the world, and wait for divine intervention to stop it? It would be wrong to work against those that do evil. The Psalm accurately represents an early viewpoint of Judaism; the Lord would reward and punish people in this life. But, by the time of Eccleasties and Job, this was being strongly questioned. By the time of the Macabees, it was clearly seen that people were expected to fight against wrongdoing. Indeed, the idea that Israel shouldn't fight is not in the OT, AFAIK. Now, I realize your denomination was founded by someone who threw Macabees out of scripture when someone successfully argued against him from these books. :-) But, nonetheless, it is part of the cannon for most Christians (both Roman Catholic and the various Orthodox churches). Were the Macabees wrong to fight? Dan M. _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
