----- Original Message ----- From: "David Brin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:11 PM Subject: Re: Brin: some final notes about the aftermath
> > --- Robert Seeberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > Speaking as a homeboy in one of the reddest of the > > red states, I'll > > throw in with you Gautam. > > This is one nation, regardless of who leads it. > > Regardless of > > transient divisions. > > When I wake up on the third, all of you will still > > be my countrymen > > and I will owe my allegiance to you above and beyond > > all other > > considerations, because the nation is its people > > more than it's flag, > > more than the land, more than the government. > > That is my desire too. That or something close to it should be the hope of any American, or really of any people. The question is how to actualize it. > This "culture war" thing was > not the doing of those moderates -- north and south, > urban and rural, conservative and liberal - who > believe in the pragmatic enlightenment, in modernism > and in a version of Pax Americana that the rest of the > world will follow toward light. True, the idea that there is a culture war is the result of letting extremeists on both sides dominate the dialogue, but *that* is the fault of the moderates for not pushing the mouthy bullies off the stage. > > It is the kleptos, apocalypts and neocon loonies who > have done this. > (http://www.davidbrin.com/neoromantics.html) That I often agree with you on this account means that we don't have a lot of discussion going here. But OTOH I'm thinking that feeding the cycle of polemics and counter-polemics actuates the machinery of extremism. The worst thing one can do to an extremist is to ignore them. So one can be part of the solution, part of the problem, or part of the solution *and* part of the problem. > > In any event, the map MEANS something, Robert. Shades of Close Encounters!!!!! <G> > Look > at it. Whatever your dreams and mine, about a > tolerant America that is united in joyful, moderate > disagreement, look at it. Due to the nature of the 2 party system, the map will look like this for every election. I also notice that you seem to ignore the midwest and most of the western states in your argument below. People are going to vote for who they vote for, for a variety of reasons and not all of these reasons are logical, information based, or even thoughtfully considered. I am not entirely convinced that most people even *want* to think about the various issues when deciding who to vote for. But their right to choose has to be respected. I'd like to see the electorate grow some kind of organ of skepticism, but that is probably too much to hope for. > > This is a civil war and we did not start it. We are > fighting for the Union. I think you are overstating. America is conflicted and divided, but there is also unity. Bushco may be a divisive influence, but that can be cured by their removal from influence, and it seems to me that there are enough conservatives asking the right questions that such an outcome may be in the offing, and an ensuing improvement in the tone of American politics would naturally follow. xponent Here There Be Diplomats Maru rob _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
