----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Warren Ockrassa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: Bill Moyers: There is no tomorrow


> On Feb 5, 2005, at 10:45 AM, Dan Minette wrote:
>
> > So, this tendency to hold onto "known truths" no matter how they are
> > called
> > into question by evidence is seen in many forms, not just religious or
> > political.  There are many times when the first criterion for accepting
> > evidence is whether or not it supports what one "already knows."
>
> I don't think anyone would disagree. However, it is religion which is
> most often the holder of those revealed truths (hence the term).

There are a couple of responses to this.  First, the truths do not have to
be revealed.  Marxists would be agast at the very notion of revealed
truths.  Rather, the truths supposedly came from a scientific study of
history.  Marx, remember, was the first sociologist.  Unless you count Adam
Smith as a social scientist, he was also the first social scientist.

I think a better description would be appeal to authority.  One very
interesting facit of this is that an appeal to a written or traditional
authority need not take into account what the point of the written or
traditional authority actually was.  Rather, knowing the right answer, one
goes through the work and finds those areas were agreement is found.

I'll give two examples of this from Christianity.  During the first 1500
years of Western Christianity, there were two great authorities that were
recognized: Augusitine and Acquinis.  The Catholic Chuch, in particular,
was very dependent on the theology of Acquinis.  Acquinis adressed the
question of natural philosophy reason and scripture.  He stated that
scripture was not intended to reveal to us those truths we could obtain
from reason and observation....rather it was to reveal to us those
(spiritual) truths that we could not know apart from revelation.

This was a strong statement in support of exploration and reason, and he
got in a bit of trouble with some authorities at the time.  But, by the
1500s, he _was_ the greatest authority in Catholic Church history.  Pope
Gregory, in accordance with this, was perfectly willing to consult
Copernican astronomers when he reworked the calander.  Yet, by the time of
Galileo's trial, Acquinis was conveniently ignored, the precident of Pope
Gregory was ignored, and inconsistancy with scripture was cited as
Galileo's problem.

In reality, that was just a convenient excuse.  The people at the time had
to ignore the Church's established precidents for understanding scripture
in order to get Galileo for contridicting Aristotle.  Since they knew that
contradicting Aristotle wouldn't sound like a good reason for punishment,
they chose an interpretation of scripture that contradited the rules set
forth by their greatest theological authority and got the answer they
wanted.

Second case is modern funamentalism and literalism.  In theory, it is an
attempt to get back to the faith of the early church...the faith of the
apostles.  If it were really that, then every scholarly technique would be
used to best determine what the actual viewpoint of the early church was.
For example, the understanding of the Gospel of John held by the first
person who was inspired to argue for the inclusion of this gospel into the
cannon should be very important.  Instead it is ignored, because it is at
odds with their own views, for it calls John spiritually true, but not
literally true.

It's easy to see this type of behavior in others, particularly those one
has very strong disagreements with.  My point is that it is not helpful for
non-religeous people to simply point to "those stupid religeous people over
there" and conclude that religion is the problem.  Rather, since  this
problem can be seen to manifest itself in many forms, one can look at the
root of the tendency to search for solutions.


As one of the most influencial pop music writers of the 20th century, Dr.
Winston O'Boogy, once said.

"It's easy to say 'Hah, you and your hypocracy'....what's harder to say is
'Hmm, me and my hypocracy.'

We all fall prey to this problem,


> I'm still inclined to think this whole tendency to cling to ideas over
> reality is *partly* because we (species) are evolved to see the world
> as a polar place. It would have been a very effective preconscious
> survival strategy and is so deeply wired into us that intelligence has
> to work *hard* to override it.

Well, it can be easier to think in black and white terms, but I don't think
that's the only manifestation of the problem.  There is the PoMo cop out
too, all that exists are narratives, and the differences between one
narrative and another is simply political.  In it's own way, that's just as
simple minded a world view as a black and white worldview.

> It's easy to get people thinking in polar terms because of the
> predisposition to do so; and because it just takes less *effort* to
> think in Boolean terms; and because if you (example) try to understand
> why your enemy is your enemy, you start seeing some of your face in his
> (or at least understanding why he's your enemy), and that makes some
> people uncomfortable as hell.

Sure, that's a trap.  The question is how to fight the trap?  One way is to
think about the similarities between you and the people who make you mad as
hell.  Another way is to cultivate friends who have different viewpoints on
those topics that reasonable people differ on.

Dan M.

Dan M.


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