--- Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:38:03 -0500, Dan Minette wrote
> I wasn't talking about arresting him, I was talking
> about inspections.

Inspecting what?  His children's prisons?  You're
conflating two issues.  I was talking about the
humanitarian case towards Saddam, and now you're
talking about inspections, which were about WMD. 
Furthermore, you're engaging in a remarkable bit of
presentism on that issue, since virtually no one
thought that inspections were working _before_ the
war.  But leave that aside, it's not even germane to
the issue.
> 
> And what about South Africa and India?  Are they not
> examples of regime 
> changes that were accomplished without war?  Today,
> are we open to such 
> possibilities, which seemed impossible to most
> people before they happened?

Well, first, no, India is _not_ an example of a regime
change without war.  Not at all.  India is an example
of a country gaining independence without war, which
is a different thing.  South Africa reformed under
F.W. De Klerk.  India escaped from British rule.  De
Klerk is so open on racial topics that I was in the
room when he said "I would have no problem were my
daughter to marry a black man", which shocked the hell
out of me when he said it and is something that might
well put him in the minority among whites in the US,
and would surely do so in Europe.  Lord Louis
Mountbatten was a decent guy so phlegmatic he
apparently didn't mind that his wife had an affair
with Nehru.  Neither of these regimes had much in
common with Saddam Hussein's.

> What about the strong consensus among other
> constituencies that the war was 
> wrong?  I refer to the churches and nations of the
> world who opposed or failed 
> to support it.  While they may be wrong, it seems
> unreasonable to give any 
> special weight to an academic or policy-maker
> consensus.

But I wasn't talking about whether the war was right
or wrong.  You're just confusing the issue again. 
There's nothing wrong with saying the war was wrong. 
My two most important mentors were _fierce_ opponents
of the war.  Huntington called it "a very stupid idea"
and Hoffmann was probably even stronger on the issue. 
The point was that they acknowledged that war was
necessary to remove Hussein - they were honest in
acknowledging the costs and benefits, they didn't
pretend that there was some magic option which could
provide all good things.  _There's nothing wrong with
opposing the war_.  Knowing what I know now about the
competence of the Administration, I don't think _I_
would have supported the war (not knowing then what I
know now, I don't regret my stance then - it was
impossible for me to know then what I know now). 
What's wrong is pretending that _not_ going to war
didn't also have costs.

> You're making so many assumptions.  Why would we
> send "lightly armed" police 
> into such a situation?  When the United Nations
> undertakes a police action, it 
> doesn't mean the troops go in lightly armed.  It
> means that the goals and 
> rules of engagement are dramatically different than
> in a war.

Like in Korea?  What is the historical parallel for
such a police action?  Can you provide _one_ example
of such a thing ever occurring?

> Because that was the only thing that would work? 
> Again, arguing from your 
> conclusion, aren't you?  South Africa.  India.

Neither of which are even vaguely similar situations. 
He's not arguing from his conclusion, he's arguing
from reality.


Gautam Mukunda
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Freedom is not free"
http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com


                
__________________________________ 
Yahoo! Messenger 
Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun. 
http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo.com/emoticontest
_______________________________________________
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Reply via email to