> > From: "Nick Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:18:35 -0700 (PDT), Gautam > > Mukunda wrote > > > > > > > Note that Dan > > > > and I, for example, despite different > positions > > on the > > > > war, have consistently acknowledged that going > > to war > > > > has costs. What's striking is the asymmetry > > here > > > > because, of course, _not_ going to war has > costs > > as > > > > well, and the reason this discussion isn't > going > > very > > > > far is the failure to acknowledge that simple > > fact. > > > > > > Good grief, Gautam. > > > > > > I've held the remaining hand of a double amputee > > from Iraq and could > > hardly > > > speak as we looked into each other's eyes and I > > told him about Wes. > <snipping> I'm not exactly clear how I was supposed to respond to your post unless I, personally, had died in Iraq. It was so emotional and yet irrelevant to the discussion.
None of us have said that you don't care about American soldiers - although you've done your best in posts like this to imply that you do far more than people who disagree with you. The point of this discussion isn't caring about Americans (even though that's the most important thing for me), it's caring about _Iraqis_. You mention being a first responder. Let me see if an analogy in that context gets through. When firefighters go into houses, some of them may die. If they go into enough houses, some of them _will_ die. So a house is on fire and people inside it are burning to death. We can hear them screaming. You are saying - don't send firefighters into that house, some of them will die. Dan and I are saying - okay, that might be a reasonable position, because some fires are just too dangerous to send people in. But when you make that decision, isn't it important to take into account the people in the house? And you're saying, no, we should send the firefighters in, because we don't want firefighters to die. Other fires have gone out because we asked them to - we didn't have to send firefighters in. To which we reply, okay, but those fires have nothing in common with this fire, so that doesn't have anything to do with whether firefighters should go into _this_ fire. So you say - no firefighters should only go in when their _own_ house is on fire. To which we say, look, what if an entire apartment building was on fire? To which your response is that's absurd, but you won't explain why your criteria would allow us to send firefighters into that apartment building. So I say, look, all I'm saying is that the lives of people _inside the building_ are also a factor. To which your response is, look, I'm really angry, I know firefighters and you couldn't possibly Now, do you understand why some people might say - protecting the lives of firefighters is important. We all want to do that. It's really a little offensive that you imply that I don't want to do that. But I don't want a fire marshall to make decisions based solely upon the fact that fighting fires risks firefighters. It's also important to save the people in the buildings. We've talked about prayer a lot in this discussion - I am praying that this analogy is sufficiently clear that I don't have to spell out each particular parallel. So yes, I acknowledge that you've spoken to lots of soldiers have suffered. Have you spoken to Iraqis who, say, saw their children raped and tortured in front of them as a routine method of interrogation? How about ones whose hands, ears, or tongues were chopped off for opposing the regime? All of these are things that would be happening _right now_ if the war had not happened. They're also powerful and emotional. Why don't they matter? If they do, why shouldn't that at least be part of the calculation when we decide what to do? Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Freedom is not free" http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Freedom is not free" http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
