On May 5, 2005, at 11:20 AM, William T Goodall wrote:
On 1 May 2005, at 8:31 am, Warren Ockrassa wrote:
The reverse is true of course -- if a believer becomes enraged at the suggestion a god doesn't exist, the question "why" is very pertinent.
I've never been religious. I get annoyed about people trying to spread religious ideas because they are nonsense and nonsense annoys me. People capable of believing in gods are capable of believing any crazy nonsense and that makes them potentially dangerous to me.
On another list there's been a discussion in the last few days about the findings of science, and particularly how many of us simply accept them without question.
For example many adults know that our solar system is heliocentric and Earth is roughly spherical, but how many of them can actually explain *why* that is true?
More to the point, what is the difference between accepting -- without question -- the statement "Sol lies at the center of our solar system" versus accepting -- again without question -- the statement "God lies at the center of our lives"?
When you comment that "People capable of believing in gods are capable of believing any crazy nonsense", you overlook a significant point, I think, and that is that it is *human nature* to believe something we've been told, particularly if it seems to descend from authority. This is probably innate; as children we'd damn well better believe what the adults tell us, or else we might get eaten by a predator.
I think the tendency persists, and it's hard to counter its effects sometimes. This suggests to me that those who do not believe in a deity are no more proof from believing wacky things than those who do, and (in my estimation) it is profoundly intellectually arrogant -- as well as probably disprovable -- to suggest that atheism is an insulation against nonsense.
Sometimes, it seems to me, anger is really a masking emotion for fear.
I do like to sit with my back against a wall and a good view of what's going on when I'm in public places in case some religious nutcase is going about with a knife or gun.
And how often has this actually happened in your life? How many times have you actually been victimized by "some religious nutcase" with a weapon?
Is this attitude significantly different from that held, for instance, by apocalyptics, who are certain the world will end any moment and they will be raptured? That is, if you sincerely think you're going to be injured or killed by a religious fanatic, how is that different from a religious person believing in "any crazy nonsense"?
I will agree that religious fervor has been a significant cause of a lot of misery in the world. Only a fool unaware of history, I think, would attempt to argue to the contrary. (Or current events, of course.)
However, being utterly dismissive of religion on the basis of its negative history is sort of like being utterly dismissive of the US today because at one time the nation condoned slave ownership. History is a tool from which to learn, I think, not one with which to indict those of whom we disapprove.
As I see it the problem is not religion; it's undisciplined, irrational thought -- and that is as prevalent *outside* of any church as it is inside. If you want to have a productive discussion with a religious person, attack the faulty thought process rather than its results.
-- Warren Ockrassa, Publisher/Editor, nightwares Books http://books.nightwares.com/ Current work in progress "The Seven-Year Mirror" http://www.nightwares.com/books/ockrassa/Flat_Out.pdf
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