>Jon Louis Mann wrote:> > > nationalism is an aberration that is found in many >countries, and to be abhorred. it is especially repugnant in nations where >their citizens actually believe they are better than other nations ....
Nationalism is not an aberrantion -- it is one of the human constants. Almost every tribal group ever examined had a word for themselves that basically meant "People" or "true people" and some equivalent to the Greek workd "barbarian" which meant "not us". If you think about it in evolutionary terms, it makes perfect sense. 99% of our evolutionary history was spent in small, isloated bands, as hunter-gatherers, in a world where humans were not the dominant species. Danger was everywhere. Survival of the individual depended on suvirival of the group. Anything from outside the groups was suspect, dangerous, to be feared. Chimpanzees show a lot of the same behaviors, even patrolling the boundaries of their terriortories, attacking the members of other groups, and, as Jane Goodall pointed out, having all out wars between groups. So when you point to one country, or one group, or one nationality, or whatever, and say "They're the nationalistic ones", "they're the evil ones ", "they're the aberration", you're really just engaging in the same behavior you calim to be derriding: "Us-and-them". Even more importantly, you are avoiding responsibility for something that is really a common trait we all share by projecting it on "them". We all have these tendencies, and the only answer to them is reason, not emotion and name calling and the generation of more fear and hate. As Dr. Brin points out, the kinds of open, responsive systems that we have developed in the past few centuries, are the only antidote we know to the universal condition of tyrrany, exploitation, war and tribalism. And we have to use our reason to set up these systems despire the fact that it goes against millions of years of evolutionary history (just like I have to use my reason not to gorge myself on high-fat foods at every possibility, even though my genes tell me it has survivial value -- for my distant ancestors it did, and the ones who stocked up on fat and calories when they could surivived and passed the craving on to me -- it today's world, though, it will kill me) ... Judging from some of the recent discussion on this list, maybe we should all go back and read some of the stuff Dr. Brin has written about the addictive qualities of self-righteous indignation? Olin ----- Original Message ----- From: Pat Mathews<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion<mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 6:21 AM Subject: RE: Sore losers Nationalism is just another step in the ladder of "Me and Not-Me," "Family and Not-Family", "Tribe and Not-Tribe".And what is the next step after nationalism? Judging from history and what I see around me, something very similar to "Citizen and Not-Citizen". A Citizen being defined as anyone of any national or racial origin or original condition who is willing to learn the language, obey the laws, and behave according to the values of the - let's be truthful here - Empire.http://idiotgrrl.livejournal.com/ > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: Sore losers> Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 23:28:15 -0700> > On Aug 27, 2008, at 1:25 PM, Jon Louis Mann wrote:> > > nationalism is an aberration that is found in many countries, and to > > be abhorred. it is especially repugnant in nations where their > > citizens actually believe they are better than other nations (like > > some french, saudi, israeli, japanese citizens, etc.).> > I think that nationalism is not an aberration at all. I would be > willing to guess that it is a larger form of xenophobia, which I would > be further willing to guess conferred evolutionary advantages: kill > off the other guys and your genes live on. The other guys can be other > guys in the tribe (to hell with you guys, I am going to be the one > whose genes live on in this tribe), other tribes (to hell with those > guys, we are going to be the ones...) and so forth.> > We e ven had a racist dog when I was a kid. He was raised by my family > of white people in a neighborhood of mostly white people, so when > black kids from "the projects" walked by, who were different, he went > nuts. Then again, dogs are remarkable at picking up subtle clues in > the behavior of their human companions, and my dad was quite a racist. > The dog may have "known" that black people were "bad" because he saw > his master tense up when they were around.> > Different is Dangerous Maru> > Dave> > _______________________________________________> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l<http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l> _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l<http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l> _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
