Don't cover up your rambling nonsense with insults mate - think through your
arguement... It's fine in my brain and I think pretty clear to the rest of the
world (in that we already play the version that I'm advocating) - but I haven't
got a clue what you're suggesting. You haven't set out in anyway what you
would suggest as a replacement for the Tour except for 'local' tournaments.
Errrm, don't we have these already? Winter League, Summer Leagues, Ladder
League.
A minute ago you were advocating "less travelling" and now you're suggesting
that 200 miles is an acceptable distance for a local tournament!! Comedy! How
many teams who are travelling to Birmingham are coming from MORE than 200 miles
away?! Not many. 200 miles is almost half the country! i.e. in your eyes
making regional tournaments effectively national. So what's the point?
Why can't you see that anyone living outside the sphere of London would
suffer if the Tour was scrapped? Is that because you live nicely within your
200 mile criteria, so that you'll be ok? Phew, that's alright then...
As for the venues arguement... Please show me a 2-day event for open teams
(i.e. not students) for less than 16 teams which has been held at a good
quality venue... Quality venues are big and expensive and therefore need large
numbers of teams to make them viable. If you're happy with games on Clapham
Common then good for you, I think most people would expect more. How can the
sport ever be taken seriously if we're effectively chucking about in a park for
most of the time?
No need to patronise, I have played in Europe thanks...
shocker dvd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
hmmm,
It seems your/my idea about "local" ain't the same. No worries. You're still
wrong.
Winter league venues aren't what I had in mind - they are just for one dayers I
think. They clearly wouldn't do for a weekend tournie. You do the math.
You don't need to travel to europe. Only if you do you'll find out what "value
for money" means. Try it one day.
Dead close can be 200 miles. Have you ever lived in Norfolk? Shame.
Its all going perfect in your brain? hmmmm..
Tom
On 5/14/07, Simon Statham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Local tournaments
just won't work (see Benji's mail). We have local Winter Leagues at the moment
and I think most people will agree that the quality outside of London just
isn't there - which is why we had the situation of EMO travelling to London to
get a decent game, until they weren't allowed any more. Plus, look at the
locations you play Winter League at... Predominantly (from my experience of
playing in the Midlands and London), you're in a park with little or no
shelter, sometimes no changing rooms, certainly no-where to camp if necessary
etc etc - this would be the future of regional tournaments. Crappy.
Less travelling??!! Yours and other people's arguement would have more teams
travelling to Europe to play!!! How's that reducing our carbon footprint?
As for poor old Mustard having to travel out of Norfolk to get to
tournaments! That made me laugh! What's the solution? Either we all come to
you (i.e. organise a Tour) or you play against all those hundreds of teams
which are dead close to you in a regional format. So who would those teams
be... Great Yarmouth? Ipswich? Bury St Edmunds? Lowestoft? King's Bloody
Lyn? Oh yeah, there aren't any! Even if you played regionally you'd still
have to travel miles!!
shocker dvd <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
Yo!
difference is "sectionals" or whatever are local. Less travelling see?
There are loadsa smaller rugby club-type venues that can take around 16 team on
good quality turf / home/away changing rooms. I think that the larger you get
the harder it is to find venues, but does the quality really go up?
(bristol/mansfield). I'm fairly sure that food quality goes down the more
people have to be catered for (thats not right is it?).
You'd be surprised how much easier it is to do catering/set up/water/schedule
changes etc for smaller tournaments.
I'm fairly sure that the rest of europe would eye 8 very competitive
tournaments in a single country with envy. Its not the tour its the fact
there's loads of us who wanna play.
I'm sure I had something else to say...
Tom
ps - the email mentioning chev/fus/leed/clap was a slip of the mouse - so feel
free to rip it to pieces. No offence meant to any of the teams in question -
sorry.
On 5/14/07, Simon Statham < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Errr, your
'sectionals' (whatever that's supposed to mean) seem to be exactly the same as
the Tour. Tour 1 is "competitive events for the smaller teams and a necessary
step for
the big teams" - i.e. all teams play on a level playing field. Then Tour 2/3
are peer seeded so it's tough for those that want it and 'fun' down the bottom
end where teams take it less seriously.
The main reason I see for keeping the Tour is simply the quality of
organisation. If you start going regional you are suddenly requiring many more
people to step forward to organise events - we know the there aren't enough
bids every year to fill the 8 UKU events, so how likely are we to get many more
people suddenly coming forward to host events? Low! Secondly, if you have
fewer teams then the quality of venues you are likely to get will be much, much
lower. How are you going to persuede a good quality venue to set aside a
weekend and host an event when you can only supply them with 100/150 people to
make money off (selling food, buying drinks etc)? We'll end up playing on
pitches which are essentially fields with some changing rooms (if you're lucky).
The Tours we have now are quite large 'events' and as such are able to
command good quality venues where we can expect to find food laid on, camping
on-site (for some), quality changing facilities, a bar open in the evenings etc
etc.
Moving to smaller regional tournaments would be a serious step back in the
quality of event that eveyone has become used to. Only in the South East would
there be enough teams available to hold a big enough event.
Finally, at the end of the day all teams like to know where they stand in
relation to others. Having ranking events like the Tour is the only way for
teams to know how good they are and how they have improved from one event to
another and one year to another. All of the other events you have mentioned
are one-offs. How can you possibly know how good you are nationally if you
come 10th at Copa or 3rd in the Midlands ladder league?
I don't know for sure but I reckon that if you looked at the rest of Europe,
they all eye our Tour with envy. It's not perfect and there are a few things
within it that I don't agree with but the fundamental ideal of getting all the
teams together to battle it out to determine who's the best in the country is
spot on. Splitting it into A and B Tours has also been a massive step forward.
John Armitage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is the tour creaking at its joints?
Yep, it is time to give it up. We can afford to move to warm up
tournaments, go along to European tournaments, and have our own
sectionals, regionals, nationals/EUCF regionals and the European
finals. Why not? Give me a good reason why not?
Here is why it works:
I spent time playing ultimate in Texas, where distances to travel are
huge but I still went to many tournaments local and far away, and I
went to Sectionals and lost every game. But the ultimate was more fun
and there was no pressure to 'have' to go to tournaments. Sectionals
are competitive events for the smaller teams and a necessary step for
the big Texas teams like Doublewide. Then regionals is a tough
tourney for say Doublewide as there are only a very few qualifying
spots. And nationals is well just tough.
>From my experience in America playing with a bunch of students out
of College Station, playing at the bottom end of a sectionals,
regionals, etc structure is fine because of the quantity of other
tournaments that fill the other weekends.
So in the UK we could have a sectionals, which may be an necessary
step for a big team like Leeds, but not so competitive. Student teams
could go as a warm up for the student season, fun teams could go to
play for fun (cos thats what it is all about). Then regionals would
be the next step, probably the end of a tough season for my club in
Southampton (there could be only 4 regions, or just 2). Then a
nationals to select the top teams to go towards EUCF, or nationals
would be the new EUCF west region and our regionals would feed into
the EUCF region, whatever, is it so hard to imagine.
There are plenty of open tournaments through the year, and mixed ones
too. I could go to Paganello, Dive Hard, Windmill Windup, Brugges,
Copa Cobana, Brighton Beyond and I think I would be quite happy
(might have miss spelt one of those, but you get my point). If I then
also went to a mixed and open sectionals plus qualified through to
regionals that would be 10 tournaments, or almost one a month. Is
that not a good ultimate calendar or have you all got nothing else to
do with your weekends?
It is time to move on.
Scot
--
**********************************************************
John Armitage
PhD Student
Geology and Geophysics, NOC
http://www.noc.soton.ac.uk/gg/people/armitage/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
__________________________________________________
BritDisc mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc
Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for
your freeaccount today.
__________________________________________________
BritDisc mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc
Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up
for your free account today.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Tryit now.
__________________________________________________
BritDisc mailing list
[email protected]
http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc
Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed
