Ive been reading over the rules and have a few observations.
In relation to my question regarding how to enforce players resuming play
quickly after a turnover, this is in Appendix A (not printed in the rules
on one page version, but can be seen in the full version at
http://www.ukultimate.com/system/files/WFDF+Ultimate+Rules+2007.pdf )
A10.1. After a turnover, the team that has gained possession of the disc
must put the disc into play under the following time conditions:
A10.1.1. If the disc is located in the Playing Field Proper after a
turnover, the disc must be put into play within fifteen (15) seconds
of when the disc came to a stop. A defensive player may, if they are
within three (3) meters of the disc, call out Delay and start
counting to fifteen (15) at 1-second intervals. Once the defensive
player has reached fifteen (15), that player may check the disc in
and initiate the stall count.
A10.1.2. If the disc is located outside the Playing Field Proper after a
turnover, the disc must be put into play within twenty-five (25)
seconds of when the disc came to a stop. A defensive player may, if
they are within three (3) meters of the location where the disc will
be put into play, call out Delay and start counting to twenty-five
(25) at 1-second intervals. Once the defensive player has reached
twenty-five (25), that player may check the disc in and initiate the
stall count.
Now, in relation to the question of whether you can start stalling when a
player has caught the disc in-bounds and run out of bounds. This is a
little more ambiguous I think...
12.3.1. If momentum causes a player to touch an out-of-bounds area after
catching the disc in-bounds, the player is considered inbounds. That player
puts the disc into play at the spot on the Field of Play closest to where
they first crossed the Perimeter Line.
9.1. Putting the disc into play means that the offensive player in
possession of the disc establishes a pivot point (typically their foot)
at the point on the Field of Play as specified.
Because it says That player puts the disc into play... I would take it to
mean that the disc has become out of play and so cant be stalled. I would
also take it as a very flimsy interpretation of the rules to say that since
the player is considered inbounds he doesnt actually need to physically
be there to be stalled, as some have suggested. That is obviously stated
only to make it clear that it isnt a turnover. However, the delay of game
rules only appear to cover a turnover, so can you use them? Most of the
rules which probably should apply to this situation are actually only stated
as applying to turnovers. I dont personaly remember any situation where
this happened and the thrower didnt come straight back to the pitch though,
so I would let them come back to the pitch before stalling them.
Finally, the question of whether you can start stalling after a layout catch
when the catcher is still on the ground. I said previously that I
considered it poor spirit to throw whilst the force was allowing you time to
get up, but I now think Felix is correct, spirit really isnt a factor in
that situation. Once you have caught the disc, and are in-bounds, you can
throw the disc, the rules say pivot point, not pivot foot, presumably for
exactly this situation. Its the defenders fault if theyre not forcing
yet. However, if a defender started stalling me whilst I was on the ground
Id feel justified in calling fast count on the basis I had yet to
establish a pivot point. I dont see how the force could argue with that
unless they were prepared to call a travel on me for the process of standing
up.
17.3.1. Marking violations include the following:
17.3.1.4.3. starts the stall count before the Offensive
player establishes both possession of the disc and a pivot
point,
17.2.1. A Travel violation occurs if:
17.2.1.2. the thrower fails to keep in contact with the pivot
point once established;
I was hoping to find some concrete resolutions, but that's mostly just my
interpretation of the rules, sorry!
Blue skies,
Graham
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