Spirit seems to be defined differently by different people. I have no problem with four letter words and spiking of discs but, personally, it does my head in when people immediately react badly to calls and so on. I do wish people thought a bit more before screaming at people who call a bad foul or who have maybe got a rule incorrect. It tends to inflame the situation and make the other person even more likely to stick to their guns. I think calm and rational discussion is vital to events not spiralling out of control and most of the teams I saw at Euros conducted themselves in this way. It is really important that captains and coaches step in when things boil over though. It's their job. That's not a slight at anyone just a general rule. I know I hate doing it because you quite often annoy your own player if they feel strongly about something, but sometime it needs to happen. Sometimes both players will be adamant the other one is wrong. Even with slow mo replays etc decisions can be difficult. It is inevitable that different view points will occur.
I have two, contrasting views on the GB Junior situation. I know NOTHING of the causes so don't want to speak about that. The event is regrettable and not good for the sport. I love the sport because this type of thing never happens and I want to see that continue. However, let's not get too wrapped up in it. One handbags at dawn (I'm assuming it was more this than brawling) is always possible when fired up players are competing for major honours. Younger players even more so. As someone said, spirit is an easier concept to put into action as you get older. Not being patronising in that sense but personally I am a lot less competitive than I used to be (worrying I know) and fair less likely to lose my rag. At school I was a disaster on the pitch. Most people chill as they get older. In my sunday football league I see fights all the time. People cheat all game, con the ref, pull each other's shirts, kick good players to stop them scoring etc etc. I know football is not the benchmark for sporting behaviour but to have only heard of one incident in the few years I've been playing suggests that the sport does get it right most of the time. I'm less concerned about people being blamed but more that we accept it was wrong and make sure it doesn't happen again. So we should ALL try a bit harder to enforce spirit as a concept. It's good to be reminded of the whole Spirit thing because it goes from something that is pretty amazing to behold when you start playing, to something you just take for granted. It's easy to focus on the negative but there were some great moments of spirit on display too. In sudden death in the open final Sweden stuck a huck up and a foul was called by their receiver. My immediate thought was it would get sent back but the GB player in question (name eludes me) immediately apologised, didn't dispute it and accepted the call. How many of us would have been so honest in such a situation with so much at stake, when the contact appeared to be very minimal? How many of us might have argued the point a little more aggressively because of the game situation? I was very impressed with the player's attitude but good incidents like this get overlooked because it's the norm. That shows the sport gets it right most of the time. An important point raised I think is the extra importance of spirit when teaching younger players, especially with an increase in school participation. Maybe this will be harder to enforce and we need to work on emphasising it more. Whatever happens, I think we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that spirit is generally adhered to and these incidents are indeed rare. The fact that you have no refs at all in a European Championships STILL amazes me. Be nice to keep it that way as well. Berry7. Flaming Galahs. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Styles Sent: 08 August 2007 12:39 To: Russell Parr Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected] Subject: Re: [BD] EUC2007 - Alternative perspective Pablo, I'm not saying we need a piece by piece analysis of the GB vs Austria game though I believe a more detailed objective account should be provided by someone so that the facts are clear and the game doesn't become the stuff of ill-informed legend. There were many factors to the game and having spoken to some of the players afterwards their side of the story needs to be heard. Regardless of the reasons and causes the GB vs Austria game turned into an mess. It was bad for the players, bad for the coaches, bad for the two countries involved, bad for the people who watched, bad for the tournament, and perhaps most importantly horrific for the game of Ultimate itself. Thankfully games like that are very very rare but if we can't discuss them, and learn from them, then we can't guarantee it's not going to happen again. Let's say you're in a high pressure game (international, tour, indoor, it doesn't matter) and you go up for, and get, a D, the offensive player calls a foul, in the heat of the moment you spike your hat and yell that it wasn't a foul. Is this :- A. A perfectly reasonable way to express your passion and frustration at what you perceive to be a poor call B. An unacceptable display of on pitch conduct This sort of occurrence was on display all around EUC, yet I don't know whether the correct answer is A or B, or even if there should be a correct answer or who should supply it, I also don't know what Nick and the Juniors make of it, or the rest of the UK Ultimate community. I don't ever want to have to witness scenes like those in the GB Austria game again and I'm keen to see us as a community come to a consensus about what's reasonable and what isn't so that young players coming into the game know when they've crossed the line. Currently the line is so blurred that it's only obvious you've crossed it when things blow up. I'd rather that good conduct be a little more defined than it is currently. I'd never seen a disc spiked until five years ago, now it happens all the time, is this OK? At what point does it become offensive or antagonistic? Motivational obscenities are also far more prevalent than they were 5 years ago when you rarely heard a four letter word on pitch. Is this OK? I don't profess to have the answers. The fact that impetus for the discussion came from a game at the otherwise brilliant EUC 2007 is probably irrelevant. The discussion is still a good idea. Cheers Tom Styles Flyght Club On 08/08/2007, Russell Parr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Whilst I Iargely agree with you, Tom, I'm inclined to think that in > this instance perhaps it isn't in the best interest to have a "full > and frank debate by the UK Ultimate community". A number of reasons for this: > > 1) The vast majority of the UK Ultimate community wasn't present to > witness the events as they unfolded; > > 2) I'm not sure it's particularly constructive to invite the Ultimate > community at large to offer their posthumous, much considered > judgments on decisions made in the heat of the moment by a young > player or players in a more pressured, higher level game than most of > us will ever be dedicated or talented enough to participate in; > > 3) Although I don't know Nick Sampson personally, I've no doubt > whatsoever that your opinion of him is correct, and therefore the best > way for everyone concerned to learn and move on in the most productive > way is almost certainly for Nick and his team to follow their own, > internal course of discussion / action / whatever, and it's for Nick > to decide whether he wants further input, and if so from whom. > Discussion on Britdisc will only make his job harder. > > Knowing what Britdisc is like, if we're not careful then the only > points that get discussed at any length from the Euros will be the > negative ones, and it would be a crying shame if a brilliantly > organised tournament that saw outstanding performances and results > from all of our representative teams ended up being remembered by > anyone for website issues or kangaroo courts. > > On a final note, the thoughts above are mine and my own, but I'm sure > I speak on behalf of all of my teammates in congratulating all of our > players and the tournament staff who made it such a cracking > tournament, props to you all. > > Pablo > -- 3 -- > Flaming Galahs > > > On 8/8/07, Tom Styles <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote: > > > > Dear Alternative Voice, > > > > Whilst I welcome follow players sending out information to the > > Ultimate community particularly of this high standard, it must said > > that it it the lowest form of journalistic cowardice to hide behind > > anonymity while openly criticising one the UKU's most passionate > > volunteers, Nick Sampson GB juniors coach. > > > > You have articulated your point clearly and you are perfectly > > entitled to your opinion, but only if you write your name at the > > bottom of your email. > > > > The incident involving the GB Juniors and the Austrian team is > > worthy of a full and frank debate by the UK ultimate community, it > > raises key questions about conduct, responsibility of players and > > coaches, and of course spirit. These are important issues. If you > > have something to say as part of that debate then say it, but don't > > hide behind frosted glass. > > > > Get some bottle, tell us who you are, and get credit for the good > > work you've done.. > > > > Yours > > Tom Styles (Original Voice) > > > > __________________________________________________ > > BritDisc mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc > > Staying informed - > http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed > > > > __________________________________________________ BritDisc mailing list [email protected] http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed __________________________________________________ BritDisc mailing list [email protected] http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed
