Yes, yes --
that was precisely what i meant by "coordination": how should i go about
implementing my ideas, content, and suggestions for the site? Many of the
questions and such that i have are very easily answered, but not easily
tracked down (if included at alll) in the website itself.
Obviously, help pages that i create can go on the Wiki. But how should i go
about easing things on the website, or the sourceforge pages?
I believe the "fbserv" command was included as part of the binaries'
introductory html help files, as part of the tutorial to "make a mug". I
went through the tutorial step-by-step, with both the gui and the console --
three times or more with each, carefully reviewing whatever output i got,
each time more carefully than the last -- but i always got the same result.
:-(
There are some tweaks i'd make to the tutorial provided there, as well --
small things, but stuff that would help new learners avoid a few
time-consuming enigmas that, currently, just require a hit-and-miss approach
to solve.
I did notice that there were some slight differences between the output and
prompts of the program (on both the console and the gui) as described by the
tutorial versus what actually played out on my own box. But generally,
things *seemed* to work o.k. up until that fbserv command.
What you write here:
>As for the x86 binary for Linux, it's mostly just a matter of time
>and effort invested per platform. We don't make binary releases
>for all platforms all the time because it's a heavy overhead burden.
>So a given binary platform release get attention as a particular
>need arises or when it's simply convenient/easy to update a
>platform. Ideally, I'd like to get to the point where there are
>package maintainers that create and maintain the binary
>distributions so that the developers can focus more effectively
>on the code.
is something i'd like to find a place for on the website -- preferably on
the brlcad website, its wiki, and at sourceforge, all three -- and elaborate
upon. I'd like to include information that answers the questions: are the
binaries intended as imperfect demos, or as ready-to-go, full-featured
apps? Under what conditions can we expect them to function perfectly, and
where can users expect problems? Are root privileges required for full
functionality? Perhaps i'll come up with more questions later. :-)
I'm rather good at generating questions. :-)
Of course, i know y'all're busy; that's why i volunteered -- to see where i
could help out. It seems as if it would be easiest if i edited the website
and sourceforge content by hand, but i can understand if you're reluctant to
hand over website permissions to somebody you've just met. So how should i
submit my modifications -- pull the html from the wesbite, re-work them, and
then send them along as attachments, here? Or would you prefer a different
method?
Still working on the compilation. Hit some snags that i didn't have time to
work through, yesterday.
Cheers --
K.
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Christopher Sean Morrison <brl...@mac.com>
> To: "User support, suggestions, questions, and comments welcome" <
> brlcad-users@lists.sourceforge.net>
> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 11:35:13 -0500
> Subject: Re: [brlcad-users] working on brl-cad tutorials
> Whether someone should grab binaries or sources is very dependent on the
> situation. You mentioned writing a tutorial, though, and writing a tutorial
> for installing a binary distribution is different for nearly every binary
> platform. Even if you were to limit the instructions to just Linux, the
> details of installing and running are particular to that distribution.
> As for missing the README and INSTALL files, that is completely
> understandable and a known limitation of the way binary distributions are
> presently packaged up. Basically, the binary distributions are completed
> install trees that you are supposed to just copy into place. That
> usr/brlcad directory gets put into /usr/brlcad and you're done. The
> alternate approach to that would be to have an installer script with
> top-level documentation files so it is a bit more automatic, but that's some
> repacking and scripting logic that would have to be worked on by somebody.
>
> As for coordinating, here is just as good a place as any. One somewhat
> blunt note, though, is that ideas are cheap. Doing the work to make those
> changes is much harder and more time consuming. Your suggestions are more
> than welcome. Actually making changes to the build scripts, installers,
> website layout, documentation, etc, though, are much more valuable
> contributions. ;-)
>
> As for the x86 binary for Linux, it's mostly just a matter of time and
> effort invested per platform. We don't make binary releases for all
> platforms all the time because it's a heavy overhead burden. So a given
> binary platform release get attention as a particular need arises or when
> it's simply convenient/easy to update a platform. Ideally, I'd like to get
> to the point where there are package maintainers that create and maintain
> the binary distributions so that the developers can focus more effectively
> on the code.
>
> If the tutorial's didn't work out the way they are shown in the tutorial,
> then you probably missed a step. The MGED book in particular is meant to be
> run in sequence as a series of tutorials that build upon each other. You
> won't be able to proceed very effectively skimming or skipping sections. As
> for making a picture, if you don't see an image by typing "rt" in the
> command window or when using the raytrace control panel, then there may be a
> problem with the default framebuffer (i.e. a problem that cannot be readily
> fixed without recompiling). There are workarounds (e.g., rt -F/dev/X), but
> you're better off starting with a clean build made for your platform.
>
> A) Sounds like a modeling mistake. You either have the wrong boolean
> recipe or you were (perhaps unknowingly) displaying the wrong objects. The
> only way to diagnose would be to know which tutorial you were working on and
> to see your .g file (and ideally see what steps you tried to display it).
> It's a steep learning curve, which is also part why the tutorial series
> must be followed very carefully. Even after completing the mged tutorial
> series, you're just barely what I'd generally consider a 'novice' modeler.
> There are engineering practices and lots of other functionality in BRL-CAD
> that has to be mastered to be a proficient novice.
>
> Curious, though, as I don't recall the tutorials covering fbserv. If
> you're reading suggestions that were sent to another user elsewhere, you may
> be making things much more complex for yourself. You shouldn't need to use
> fbserv. The tutorial covers using the raytrace control panel, which should
> be all you need to visualize the resultant objects. That said, there is
> manual page docs for most of the command-line commands (like fbserv). We're
> working on a major overhaul of the mged-specific documentation so that you
> can have manpage-style commands for all of the mged commands too. That's a
> huge project, though (and help is welcome!).
>
> B) Fantastic. That will eliminate some of the questions and confusions
> hopefully.
>
> Cheers!
> Sean
>
>
> On Feb 23, 2009, at 6:01 AM, Kyle Pearson wrote:
>
> Hello again, CSM --
>
> Yeah, i'm familiar with the config/make/make-install dance. :-) What was
> confusing for me was that, on the Sourceforge forae, you recommended to one
> new user that they grab the x86 binaries, rather than the source. I
> downloaded the binary tarball, but when i opened it up found only a
> /usr/brlcad directory tree that i surfed around a bit -- but not very
> thoroughly, so i missed the README and INSTALL files. I was thinking that,
> if it had any, they'd be obviously placed. I've found them now, though.
>
> Situations like that are the part of what i think i can help with --
> helping with overall site design, and efficiency, the insertion of helpful
> comments here and there. :-) How do you suggest we co-ordinate that?
>
> So anyway, back to the story: i followed the "Linux" button and noticed
> that the latest version of the binaries seemed to be oriented solely at 64
> bit systems -- i didn't see any generic, x86 tarballs in the Sourceforge
> "Linux Downolads" section, except for the binaries from a folder in 2007.
> And it was about then i decided to float this e-mail, to see where and how i
> could add some content to solve things like that -- questions, and weird
> impasses, that i imagine a lot of would-be users are probably intimidated
> by.
>
> I got the binaries working, yesterday, and then went through a couple of
> tutorials (a Sunday afternoon, eh?), but encountered a few problems. Some
> of the "unions" didn't get drawn like the pictures i was provided with in
> the tutorial; i didn't know if that was convention, a bug, a mistake i
> made, or what. The only way i could really tell would be to render it -- i
> thought -- but I couldn't get the fbserv command working. I flailed around
> with it for an hour or two, first as an ordinary user, and then as "root",
> and wound up shifting my Xserver configuration and diddling it up at the
> next re-boot. :-P
>
> So i was never able to get it to render, and had no idea where to go next
> to figure out what the problem might be. The tutorial had produced a few
> figures, but they didn't look like the images on the website and there was
> an awful lot that i'd discovered along the way -- the GUI interface, the
> terminal interface, etc -- but had no idea really how to use yet. In other
> words, i felt like it was time for another session, and i really had little
> idea that i was any further along.
>
> That's not a complaint; it's just that i'm a teacher, and i notice things
> like that. So i'd like to find some way to help touch up small things like
> that.
>
> So -- where i'm at:
>
> A) Got the binaries properly "installed" and played around with them a
> bit. I hit a few snags, though, in the fbserver command: the display i
> got wasn't what i was expecting, from the documentation provided. The
> "handle" went through the wall of the "cup", and even after the union was
> performed that anomaly remained. Was it a display bug? Was it a bug at
> all?? Would rendering clear that up? I had no idea where to go to learn
> the answers, nor even what to do next. I tried rendering it, but the fbserv
> command got in the way. So i have lots of questions, but no answers, and am
> eager to figure out the fbserv so i can start rendering things. :-P
> -- Is this a problem with the binaries, and -- if so -- then what are the
> binaries good for?
> ===> And i think a copy of this information -- which i'll be happy to
> type up -- would be good on the Sourceforge download's page, your website,
> and more conspicuously placed within the binary tarball -- as, say, a
> "README.brl-cad.txt" file that pops out along with the file-tree. Not
> because it's necessary -- but just because it's an easy thing you could do
> (in the next release, if you wish) that would be a big help.
> -- If rendering would have helped, then: are there more reliable commands
> than fbserv for rendering things?
> -- If not, and i must use the command (and use it often!), then i'm going
> to need to learn a bit from you about how to troubleshoot it -- a man page,
> so to speak -- so i can introduce it properly, and more helpfully. I didn't
> find anything on your website, or in the html pages, but i haven't looked at
> anything else from the binaries b/c i deleted them just now. :-) For the
> compliation. Just below.
>
>
> B) Since i'm still not sure i can trust the interface, yet -- and since
> eventually, i'm going to need to do somethign like this, anyway -- i'm going
> to compile it. I'll let you know how it goes.
>
>
> At any rate, as you can see: i'm already at work on the first page, and
> taking notes. :-) Thanks for the patience --
>
> Cheers --
>
> K.
>
> On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Christopher Sean Morrison <
> brl...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> Kyle,
>> Hi and thanks for the message! That sounds like a fantastic idea you have
>> there. It's actually been on our to-do list to have
>> a succinct "introduction to BRL-CAD" that covers installation and basic use.
>> For coaching you, I'd be happy to help you one-on-one via e-mail. I would
>> suggest, though, that we talk on the brlcad-users mailing list (cc'd) since
>> that will afford others the opportunity to help you too. That can be
>> particularly useful for those times when I'm overloaded and may possibly
>> give you (and others) more breadth of an answer to questions as they come
>> up. The brlcad-users mailing list can be joined [1] here:
>>
>> [1] https://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/brlcad-users
>>
>> As for installation, the steps are usually very specific to the platform
>> you're installing on except for installing from a source code release (where
>> it's the same for most platforms). If you're on Linux, that's what I would
>> say you should start with just to make the steps the easiest to make generic
>> (at least in terms of contributing a tutorial). So the first step would be
>> to go to http://brlcad.org and selecting "Download" off the menu, then
>> selecting the Source link. That will take you to [2] a page on Sourceforge
>> that has all source downloads listed. Download one of them and unpack the
>> tarball.
>>
>> [2]
>> https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=105292&package_id=113368
>>
>>
>> Once you unpack the sources, like most open source packages, there are a
>> couple "standard" files that you should read. That would be the [3] README
>> and [4] INSTALL files.
>>
>> [3] http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/README
>> [4] http://brlcad.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/brlcad/brlcad/trunk/INSTALL
>>
>> While the exact instructions and options will vary slightly from release
>> to release and will depend on your platform, the basic compile-and-install
>> steps are pretty much the same. You prepare the build system "autogen.sh",
>> you specify compilation options with "configure", you run "make" to build
>> everything, and then "make install" to install everything. For purposes of
>> a tutorial, the steps that will generally work best for most are:
>>
>> sh autogen.sh
>> ./configure --enable-all --without-ogl --enable-optimized
>> make
>> sudo make install
>>
>> To understand everything that is spelled out there requires reading
>> through most of [3] README and [4] INSTALL but is pretty common for most
>> Linux source installations. That should get you started. Assuming
>> everything compiles and installs cleanly, the [4] INSTALL file covers how to
>> test the installation to make sure everything is okay. Once that is done,
>> our existing [5] Documentation then becomes invaluable. I'd suggest going
>> through the list one at a time in order going down the list.
>>
>> [5] http://brlcad.org/wiki/Documentation
>>
>> The second document, "Introduction to MGED" is a very detailed series of
>> tutorials that aim to get someone familiar with the basics of modeling using
>> BRL-CAD. Please don't hesitate to write back with any questions or
>> clarifications.
>>
>> Cheers!
>> Sean
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 21, 2009, at 5:00 AM, Kyle Pearson wrote:
>>
>> I'm a teacher, and have done a bit of technical writing, and i'm also
>> interested in learning brl-cad -- but i've never used CAD software and have
>> no idea where to begin sifting the mountain of your documentation to get to
>> design even a simple object (right now, the project is a fine-wood
>> bread-maker's cabinet).
>>
>> So i've been around Linux for a few years, and have always been interested
>> in contributing something, but never really saw an opportunity like this
>> one. I'd love to help y'all write up some basic introductions to brl-cad;
>> i could learn a lot, get some free coaching on its installation, usage, and
>> whatnot, and then write up what i learn as tutorials.
>>
>> We could start with "installation", and go from there. :-)
>>
>> I'm familiar enough with Linux systems that, in a small-business
>> situation, i could probably pass as an adequate sysadmin. I live in Taiwan,
>> though, and those guys are a dime-a-dozen. I have virtually no familiarity
>> with coding applications, nor with full-featured programming languages --
>> just enough to get by, and no more.
>>
>> I think my abilities are well matched to this task, and would be happy to
>> lend a hand -- at least for a few months.
>>
>> So if y'all would like to set me up with a contact who'd be willing to
>> patiently coach me through the fundmentals, then i'd be more than happy to
>> write up the lessons i receive as tutorials, hyper-link them, and construct
>> a basic set of introductory materials that people can use to get started.
>>
>> K. Pearson
>>
>> --
>> Pray for Gaza, and the brave, beleaguered Palestinians.
>>
>> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
>> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Pray for Gaza, and the brave, beleaguered Palestinians.
>
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Open Source Business Conference (OSBC), March 24-25, 2009, San Francisco,
> CA
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> Enterprise
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/brlcad-users
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Open Source Business Conference (OSBC), March 24-25, 2009, San Francisco,
> CA
> -OSBC tackles the biggest issue in open source: Open Sourcing the
> Enterprise
> -Strategies to boost innovation and cut costs with open source
> participation
> -Receive a $600 discount off the registration fee with the source code:
> SFAD
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/XcvMzF8H
> _______________________________________________
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--
Pray for Gaza, and the brave, beleaguered Palestinians.
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-OSBC tackles the biggest issue in open source: Open Sourcing the Enterprise
-Strategies to boost innovation and cut costs with open source participation
-Receive a $600 discount off the registration fee with the source code: SFAD
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