Sure.
Best regards,
TP
On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 1:51 PM, Øystein Schønning-Johansen
<[email protected]> wrote:
> This observation can be a clue, indeed.
>
> Can you do:
> show evaluation
> show analyzis
>
> That will hopefully give us the difference in the settings, that lead to the
> different results.
>
> -Øystein
>
> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 1:36 PM, Terje Pedersen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> I tried adding:
>>
>> set evaluation chequerplay evaluation prune off
>>
>> to the command file but the output is the same.
>>
>> I have noticed that if I use 'hint' instead of 'analyze move' I get a
>> completely different result.
>>
>> set player 0 human
>> new match 0
>> set output rawboard off
>> set xgid XGID=----BBCA-----A----B-B--eB-:0:0:1:51:0:3:0:5:10
>> move 24/19 18/17
>> previous
>> hint
>>
>> Perhaps it could be a clue. Not sure.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> TP
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 1:05 PM, Øystein Schønning-Johansen
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Yes! Things looks correct.
>> >
>> > I browse the code history from your release to the one I'm using. The
>> > only
>> > change I can see that may matter, is the use of pruning neural networks
>> > in
>> > move selections.
>> > Can you try also with pruning turned turned off. Does that change
>> > anything?
>> >
>> > -Øystein
>> >
>> > On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 12:38 PM, Terje Pedersen <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi!
>> >>
>> >> Initially it triggered on an ubuntu server: 4.4.0-67-generic
>> >> #88-Ubuntu that runs the same 1.05.000 version of gnu bg then I tried
>> >> it on my Windows 10 machine and got the same result.
>> >>
>> >> (No game) show matchequitytable
>> >> Match equity table: Kazaross XG2 25 point MET
>> >> (/usr/local/share/gnubg/met/Kazaross-XG2.xml)
>> >>
>> >> looks good.
>> >>
>> >> I'll give 1.06 version a try and see if it will handle this position
>> >> differently.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks for your reply!
>> >>
>> >> Best regards,
>> >> TP
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 11:44 AM, Øystein Schønning-Johansen
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > Really strange. However it is a heisenbug (of course). I cannot
>> >> > recreate
>> >> > the
>> >> > bug on my system. (GNU Backgammon 1.06.000 Dec 13 2017, Arch Linux)
>> >> >
>> >> > Here is how the same thing looks at my system:
>> >> >
>> >> > GNU Backgammon Position ID: PgAAALYLBDMMAA
>> >> > Match ID : cImmADAAAAAE
>> >> > +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+ O: gnubg
>> >> > | X X | | X O X | OO 3 points
>> >> > | X | | X O X | OO
>> >> > | | | O | OO
>> >> > | | | O | OO
>> >> > | | | O | OO
>> >> > v| |BAR| | 5 point match (Cube:
>> >> > 1)
>> >> > | | | |
>> >> > | | | |
>> >> > | | | X |
>> >> > | | | X X X | Rolled 51
>> >> > | X | | X X X | 0 points
>> >> > +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+ X: oystein
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Cube analysis
>> >> > 2-ply cubeless equity -2.2349 (Money: -2.0391)
>> >> > 0.0860 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9140 0.7715 0.4396
>> >> > Cubeful equities:
>> >> > 1. No double -2.0550
>> >> > 2. Double, pass +1.0000 (+3.0550)
>> >> > 3. Double, take -2.4258 (-0.3708)
>> >> > Proper cube action: No double, take (10.8%)
>> >> >
>> >> > Rolled 51 (-0.066):
>> >> > * 1. Cubeful 2-ply 24/19 18/17 Eq.: -2.0615
>> >> > 0.0892 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9108 0.7435 0.6447
>> >> > 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
>> >> > 2. Cubeful 2-ply 13/7 Eq.: -2.1614
>> >> > (-0.0999)
>> >> > 0.0707 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9293 0.7800 0.6404
>> >> > 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
>> >> > 3. Cubeful 2-ply 13/8 6/5 Eq.: -2.1766
>> >> > (-0.1151)
>> >> > 0.0701 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9299 0.7866 0.6634
>> >> > 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
>> >> > 4. Cubeful 2-ply 18/13 6/5 Eq.: -2.1963
>> >> > (-0.1348)
>> >> > 0.0603 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9397 0.7831 0.6918
>> >> > 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
>> >> > 5. Cubeful 2-ply 18/17 18/13 Eq.: -2.2086
>> >> > (-0.1470)
>> >> > 0.0567 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9433 0.7815 0.7003
>> >> > 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
>> >> > 6. Cubeful 2-ply 18/12 Eq.: -2.2291
>> >> > (-0.1676)
>> >> > 0.0544 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9456 0.7887 0.6961
>> >> > 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
>> >> > 7. Cubeful 2-ply 18/17 13/8 Eq.: -2.2481
>> >> > (-0.1866)
>> >> > 0.0524 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9476 0.7953 0.6954
>> >> > 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
>> >> > 8. Cubeful 2-ply 18/17 7/2 Eq.: -2.2952
>> >> > (-0.2337)
>> >> > 0.0476 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9524 0.8135 0.7098
>> >> > 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
>> >> > 9. Cubeful 0-ply 24/19 6/5 Eq.: -2.1277
>> >> > (-0.0661)
>> >> > 0.0653 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9347 0.7599 0.4187
>> >> > 0-ply cubeful prune [expert]
>> >> > 10. Cubeful 0-ply 18/13 7/6 Eq.: -2.1289
>> >> > (-0.0674)
>> >> > 0.0648 0.0000 0.0000 - 0.9352 0.7593 0.5707
>> >> > 0-ply cubeful prune [expert]
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm on this system:
>> >> > [oystein@jupiter ~]$ gnubg -t < terjebug.txt
>> >> > GNU Backgammon 1.06.000 Dec 13 2017
>> >> >
>> >> > Can you supply which OS, version/build of GNU Backgammon (well that
>> >> > looks
>> >> > like you got "GNU Backgammon 1.05.000 Nov 27 2016"). Can you also
>> >> > state
>> >> > which match equity table you are using?
>> >> >
>> >> > I have a theory that it get's the wrong answer because it calculates
>> >> > the
>> >> > gammonvalue (or actually the backgammon value in this case)
>> >> > incorrectly.
>> >> >
>> >> > can you append
>> >> >
>> >> > show matchequitytable
>> >> > show marketwindow
>> >> > show gammonvalues
>> >> >
>> >> > to your command file, and submit the output?
>> >> >
>> >> > -Øystein
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 5:43 PM, Terje Pedersen <[email protected]>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hi!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I just ran into what looks like a gnu evaluation bug where gnu seems
>> >> >> to suggest that I should try to avoid backgammon when a gammon will
>> >> >> lose the match anyway. command file:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> set player 0 human
>> >> >> new match 0
>> >> >> set output rawboard off
>> >> >> set xgid XGID=----BBCA-----A----B-B--eB-:0:0:1:51:0:3:0:5:10
>> >> >> move 24/19 18/17
>> >> >> next
>> >> >> previous
>> >> >> analyze move
>> >> >> show board
>> >> >>
>> >> >> $ ./gnubg.exe -t -c commands.txt
>> >> >> GNU Backgammon 1.05.000 Nov 27 2016
>> >> >> Copyright (C) 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 by Gary Wong.
>> >> >> Copyright (C) 2015 by Gary Wong and the AUTHORS; for details type
>> >> >> `show version'.
>> >> >> This program comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; for details type
>> >> >> `show
>> >> >> warranty'.
>> >> >> This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it under
>> >> >> certain conditions; type `show copying' for details.
>> >> >> Moves for gnubg must now be entered manually.
>> >> >> A new session has been started.
>> >> >> TTY boards will be given in ASCII.
>> >> >> The dice have been set to 5 and 1.
>> >> >> GNU Backgammon Position ID: PgAAALYLBDMMAA
>> >> >> Match ID : cImmADAAAAAE
>> >> >> +13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+ O: gnubg
>> >> >> | X X | | X O X | OO 3 points
>> >> >> | X | | X O X | OO
>> >> >> | | | O | OO
>> >> >> | | | O | OO
>> >> >> | | | O | OO
>> >> >> v| |BAR| | 5 point match
>> >> >> (Cube:
>> >> >> 1)
>> >> >> | | | |
>> >> >> | | | |
>> >> >> | | | X |
>> >> >> | | | X X X | Rolled 51
>> >> >> | X | | X X X | 0 points
>> >> >> +12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+ X: terje
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Cube analysis
>> >> >> 2-ply cubeless equity -2.238 (Money: -2.039)
>> >> >> 0.086 0.000 0.000 - 0.914 0.771 0.440
>> >> >> Cubeful equities:
>> >> >> 1. No double -2.058
>> >> >> 2. Double, pass +1.000 ( +3.058)
>> >> >> 3. Double, take -2.430 ( -0.372)
>> >> >> Proper cube action: No double, take (10.9%)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Rolled 51 (-0.066):
>> >> >> 1. Cubeful 2-ply 24/18 Eq.: -1.850
>> >> >> 0.144 0.000 0.000 - 0.856 0.716 0.430
>> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
>> >> >> 2. Cubeful 2-ply 24/19 6/5 Eq.: -1.994 (
>> >> >> -0.143)
>> >> >> 0.106 0.000 0.000 - 0.894 0.735 0.627
>> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
>> >> >> 3. Cubeful 2-ply 24/19 7/6 Eq.: -2.015 (
>> >> >> -0.164)
>> >> >> 0.102 0.000 0.000 - 0.898 0.739 0.626
>> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
>> >> >> * 4. Cubeful 2-ply 24/19 18/17 Eq.: -2.065 (
>> >> >> -0.214)
>> >> >> 0.089 0.000 0.000 - 0.911 0.743 0.647
>> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
>> >> >> 5. Cubeful 2-ply 13/7 Eq.: -2.165 (
>> >> >> -0.314)
>> >> >> 0.071 0.000 0.000 - 0.929 0.780 0.641
>> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
>> >> >> 6. Cubeful 2-ply 13/8 6/5 Eq.: -2.180 (
>> >> >> -0.329)
>> >> >> 0.070 0.000 0.000 - 0.930 0.787 0.663
>> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
>> >> >> 7. Cubeful 2-ply 18/13 6/5 Eq.: -2.200 (
>> >> >> -0.349)
>> >> >> 0.060 0.000 0.000 - 0.940 0.783 0.692
>> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
>> >> >> 8. Cubeful 2-ply 7/2 6/5 Eq.: -2.206 (
>> >> >> -0.355)
>> >> >> 0.068 0.000 0.000 - 0.932 0.799 0.669
>> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
>> >> >> 9. Cubeful 2-ply 18/17 18/13 Eq.: -2.212 (
>> >> >> -0.361)
>> >> >> 0.057 0.000 0.000 - 0.943 0.781 0.700
>> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
>> >> >> 10. Cubeful 2-ply 18/13 7/6 Eq.: -2.229 (
>> >> >> -0.378)
>> >> >> 0.056 0.000 0.000 - 0.944 0.789 0.702
>> >> >> 2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Any idea what is going on here? I am using gnu bg for evaluating
>> >> >> moves
>> >> >> on Backgammon Studio when playing online matches and was hit in the
>> >> >> face with this double blunder which I was confident couldn't
>> >> >> possibly
>> >> >> be correct. XG doesn't think it is much of an error:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 2. XG Roller++ 24/19 18/17 eq:-2.2250 (-0.0057)
>> >> >> Player: 7.58% (G:0.00% B:0.00%)
>> >> >> Opponent: 92.42% (G:76.45% B:64.53%)
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Best regards,
>> >> >> TP
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Bug-gnubg mailing list
>> >> >> [email protected]
>> >> >> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/bug-gnubg
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
GNU Backgammon 1.05.000 Nov 27 2016
Copyright (C) 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 by Gary Wong.
Copyright (C) 2015 by Gary Wong and the AUTHORS; for details type `show
version'.
This program comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; for details type `show
warranty'.
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it under certain
conditions; type `show copying' for details.
Moves for gnubg must now be entered manually.
A new session has been started.
TTY boards will be given in ASCII.
‘eval’ and ‘hint’ checkerplay will use pruning.
The dice have been set to 5 and 1.
GNU Backgammon Position ID: PgAAALYLBDMMAA
Match ID : cImmADAAAAAE
+13-14-15-16-17-18------19-20-21-22-23-24-+ O: gnubg
| X X | | X O X | OO 3 points
| X | | X O X | OO
| | | O | OO
| | | O | OO
| | | O | OO
v| |BAR| | 5 point match (Cube: 1)
| | | |
| | | |
| | | X |
| | | X X X | Rolled 51
| X | | X X X | 0 points
+12-11-10--9--8--7-------6--5--4--3--2--1-+ X: terje
Cube analysis
2-ply cubeless equity -2.238 (Money: -2.039)
0.086 0.000 0.000 - 0.914 0.771 0.440
Cubeful equities:
1. No double -2.058
2. Double, pass +1.000 ( +3.058)
3. Double, take -2.430 ( -0.372)
Proper cube action: No double, take (10.9%)
Rolled 51 (-0.066):
1. Cubeful 2-ply 24/18 Eq.: -1.850
0.144 0.000 0.000 - 0.856 0.716 0.430
2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
2. Cubeful 2-ply 24/19 6/5 Eq.: -1.994 ( -0.143)
0.106 0.000 0.000 - 0.894 0.735 0.627
2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
3. Cubeful 2-ply 24/19 7/6 Eq.: -2.015 ( -0.164)
0.102 0.000 0.000 - 0.898 0.739 0.626
2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
* 4. Cubeful 2-ply 24/19 18/17 Eq.: -2.065 ( -0.214)
0.089 0.000 0.000 - 0.911 0.743 0.647
2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
5. Cubeful 2-ply 13/7 Eq.: -2.165 ( -0.314)
0.071 0.000 0.000 - 0.929 0.780 0.641
2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
6. Cubeful 2-ply 13/8 6/5 Eq.: -2.180 ( -0.329)
0.070 0.000 0.000 - 0.930 0.787 0.663
2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
7. Cubeful 2-ply 18/13 6/5 Eq.: -2.200 ( -0.349)
0.060 0.000 0.000 - 0.940 0.783 0.692
2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
8. Cubeful 2-ply 7/2 6/5 Eq.: -2.206 ( -0.355)
0.068 0.000 0.000 - 0.932 0.799 0.669
2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
9. Cubeful 2-ply 18/17 18/13 Eq.: -2.212 ( -0.361)
0.057 0.000 0.000 - 0.943 0.781 0.700
2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
10. Cubeful 2-ply 18/13 7/6 Eq.: -2.229 ( -0.378)
0.056 0.000 0.000 - 0.944 0.789 0.702
2-ply cubeful prune [world class]
Match equity table: Kazaross XG2 25 point MET
(/usr/local/share/gnubg/met/Kazaross-XG2.xml)
Generated using XG rollouts to 9pts, GNUBG Supremo full rollouts to 15 points.
Extended to 25pts by projecting take points.
Pre-Crawford table:
1-away 2-away 3-away 4-away 5-away
1-away 50.0000 67.7360 75.0760 81.4360 84.1790
2-away 32.2640 50.0000 59.9470 66.8700 74.3590
3-away 24.9240 40.0530 50.0000 57.1500 64.7950
4-away 18.5640 33.1300 42.8500 50.0000 57.7320
5-away 15.8210 25.6410 35.2050 42.2680 50.0000
Post-Crawford table for player 0 (gnubg):
1-away 2-away 3-away 4-away 5-away
1-away 50.0000 48.8030 32.2640 31.0020 19.0120
Post-Crawford table for player 1 (terje):
1-away 2-away 3-away 4-away 5-away
1-away 50.0000 48.8030 32.2640 31.0020 19.0120
Player gnubg : gammon rate 36.31%, bg rate 48.09%
Player terje : gammon rate 0.00%, bg rate 0.00%
Player gnubg market window:
Dead cube (opponent doesn't redouble): 73.72% - 60.50%
Dead cube (opponent redoubles): 93.34% - 76.64%
Player terje market window:
Dead cube: 26.28% - 82.72%
Player Gammon value Backgammon value
gnubg 0.91403 0.91403
terje 0.39996 0.97464
‘eval’ and ‘hint’ will use:
Checker play:
Neural net evaluation:
2-ply evaluation.
Using pruning neural nets. Cubeful evaluations.
Noiseless evaluations.
Move filters:
Move filter for 1 ply:
keep the first 0 0-ply moves and up to 8 more moves within equity 0.16
Move filter for 2 ply:
keep the first 0 0-ply moves and up to 8 more moves within equity 0.16
Skip pruning for 1-ply moves.
Move filter for 3 ply:
keep the first 0 0-ply moves and up to 8 more moves within equity 0.16
Skip pruning for 1-ply moves.
keep the first 0 2-ply moves and up to 2 more moves within equity 0.04
Move filter for 4 ply:
keep the first 0 0-ply moves and up to 8 more moves within equity 0.16
Skip pruning for 1-ply moves.
keep the first 0 2-ply moves and up to 2 more moves within equity 0.04
Skip pruning for 3-ply moves.
Cube decisions:
Neural net evaluation:
2-ply evaluation.
Using pruning neural nets. Cubeful evaluations.
Noiseless evaluations.
Cube action will be analyzed.
Dice rolls will be analyzed.
Checker play will be analyzed.
Analyse gnubg's chequerplay and cube decisions: yes
Analyse terje's chequerplay and cube decisions: yes
Analysis thresholds:
-0.040 doubtful
-0.080 bad
-0.160 very bad
+0.600 very lucky
+0.300 lucky
-0.300 unlucky
-0.600 very unlucky
Analysis will be performed with the following evaluation parameters:
Checker play:
Neural net evaluation:
2-ply evaluation.
Using pruning neural nets. Cubeful evaluations.
Noiseless evaluations.
Move filter for 1 ply:
keep the first 0 0-ply moves and up to 16 more moves within equity 0.32
Move filter for 2 ply:
keep the first 0 0-ply moves and up to 16 more moves within equity 0.32
Skip pruning for 1-ply moves.
Move filter for 3 ply:
keep the first 0 0-ply moves and up to 16 more moves within equity 0.32
Skip pruning for 1-ply moves.
keep the first 0 2-ply moves and up to 4 more moves within equity 0.08
Move filter for 4 ply:
keep the first 0 0-ply moves and up to 16 more moves within equity 0.32
Skip pruning for 1-ply moves.
keep the first 0 2-ply moves and up to 4 more moves within equity 0.08
Skip pruning for 3-ply moves.
Cube decisions:
Neural net evaluation:
2-ply evaluation.
Using pruning neural nets. Cubeful evaluations.
Noiseless evaluations.
Luck analysis:
0-ply evaluation.
Not using pruning neural nets. Cubeful evaluations.
Noiseless evaluations.
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