Yes! I am also very skeptical of the effect of skewed match equity tables. Why should this work? If the best player is better he has a higher probability of winning, so his/her doubling point is appearing earlier.
However in a position type where skill is not really dominant, say no contact position, the doubling from the strongest player should rather be delayed to avoid the underdog being lucky. I strongly believe that cube handling in matches of uneven players should rather consider the skill needed to play the specific position on the board. Just making a skewed MET is in my opinion not the solution. As a serious besserwisser, I am (in this case) not willing to make any effort to do any type of experiments to prove me right. (I'm just using the same logic as flat-earthers and ani-vaxxers etc.) :-) -Øystein tir. 23. aug. 2022 kl. 19:56 skrev Joseph Heled <jhe...@gmail.com>: > > A personal note, if I may. > > Back in the day I dabbled with rating adjusted equity tables, i.e. having > the stronger player use an adjusted equity table based on the rating > difference. > > I was never able to make it work. If anything, it ended up with the higher > rated "player" doing worse. It's possible I implemented it wrong, but I > would like to see some evidence first ... > > Also, using different equity tables rarely makes a difference in actual > play. Again I struggled to prove that one equity table is much better in > practice than others. > With todays computing power it should be much easier to set up > experiments. Anyone up to the task? > > (Ian might remember how I distributed the rollouts for the net training. I > could not have done it without you or the others!!!) > > -Joseph > > > On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 at 05:12, Ian Shaw <ian.s...@riverauto.co.uk> wrote: > >> Thanks David. >> >> >> >> That T-12 is very interesting. I see that the subsequent tables are based >> on an increasing cubeless win % by 1% per 50 rating points. >> >> >> >> The Elo formula gives a higher win rate for a given rating (in a 1-point >> match) than the equivalent Jacobs Table. >> >> >> >> *Table #* >> >> *Page* >> >> *Rating point difference* >> >> *Jacobs Table cpw* >> >> *Elo cpw* >> >> T-13 >> >> 32 >> >> 0 (even) >> >> 50.0 >> >> 50.0 >> >> T-15 >> >> 34 >> >> 100 >> >> 52.0 >> >> 52.9 >> >> T-17 >> >> 36 >> >> 200 >> >> 54.0 >> >> 55.7 >> >> T-19 >> >> 38 >> >> 300 >> >> 56.0 >> >> 58.6 >> >> >> >> I’ll try to construct the xml files for the tables over the next few >> days. >> >> >> >> -- Ian >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* pub...@booksongaming.com <pub...@booksongaming.com> >> *Sent:* 23 August 2022 17:33 >> *To:* Ian Shaw <ian.s...@riverauto.co.uk>; 'Øystein Schønning-Johansen' < >> oyste...@gmail.com>; 'Ezequiel Galarce' <egala...@gmail.com>; >> 'bug-gnubg' <bug-gnubg@gnu.org> >> *Subject:* RE: GNU Backgammon >> >> >> >> Ian et al, >> >> >> >> I also included T-12 which gives the parameters for subsequent tables. >> Let me know if you want more. >> >> >> >> I’m also not sure how happy the list-serv is with 5MB of attachments. I >> can find other ways to send them if need be. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> >> >> David >> >> >> >> *From:* Ian Shaw <ian.s...@riverauto.co.uk> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 23, 2022 12:59 AM >> *To:* public@booksongamingcom <pub...@booksongaming.com>; 'Øystein >> Schønning-Johansen' <oyste...@gmail.com>; 'Ezequiel Galarce' < >> egala...@gmail.com>; 'bug-gnubg' <bug-gnubg@gnu.org> >> *Subject:* RE: GNU Backgammon >> >> >> >> Hi David, >> >> >> >> From >> https://bkgm.com/articles/Sengoku/GraphicalMatchEquity/FishEffects/index.html >> I understand that these are the tables used for compiling the METs. >> >> >> >> Since we have a jac50, I assume that one would be T-14. >> >> If you could send a picture of T-17 and T-19, that would be great. >> >> >> >> *Table #* >> >> *Page* >> >> *Rating point difference* >> >> T-13 >> >> 32 >> >> 0 (even) >> >> T-15 >> >> 34 >> >> 100 >> >> T-17 >> >> 36 >> >> 200 >> >> T-19 >> >> 38 >> >> 300 >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Ian Shaw >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* pub...@booksongaming.com <pub...@booksongaming.com> >> *Sent:* 23 August 2022 00:29 >> *To:* Ian Shaw <ian.s...@riverauto.co.uk>; 'Øystein Schønning-Johansen' < >> oyste...@gmail.com>; 'Ezequiel Galarce' <egala...@gmail.com>; >> 'bug-gnubg' <bug-gnubg@gnu.org> >> *Subject:* RE: GNU Backgammon >> >> >> >> I have a copy of the book. There are more than 60 tables in it, but if >> anyone knows which one(s) you’re looking for, I’m happy to send along >> photos. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> >> >> David Levy >> >> >> >> *From:* Bug-gnubg <bug-gnubg-bounces+public=booksongaming....@gnu.org> *On >> Behalf Of *Ian Shaw >> *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2022 1:34 PM >> *To:* Øystein Schønning-Johansen <oyste...@gmail.com>; Ezequiel Galarce < >> egala...@gmail.com>; bug-gnubg <bug-gnubg@gnu.org> >> *Subject:* Re: GNU Backgammon >> >> >> >> There was a table in the book. Tom Keith refers to it in one of his >> articles on bkgm.com. >> >> >> >> If I can resurrect an old hard drive, I'll have a look. >> >> >> >> It ought to be possible to generate fish tables from first principles, >> assuming a win rate and gammon rate per player. >> >> >> >> I think Jacobs used 24% gammon rate, which is higher than most. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> *Ian Shaw* >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From:* Bug-gnubg <bug-gnubg-bounces+ian.shaw=riverauto.co.uk@gnuorg >> <bug-gnubg-bounces+ian.shaw=riverauto.co...@gnu.org>> on behalf of >> Øystein Schønning-Johansen <oyste...@gmail.com> >> *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2022 5:08:30 PM >> *To:* Ezequiel Galarce <egala...@gmail.com>; bug-gnubg <bug-gnubg@gnu.org >> > >> *Subject:* Re: GNU Backgammon >> >> >> >> Hmmm.... >> >> >> >> If my archive remembers correctly there never was a jac200 table. I don't >> have a copy of "Can a Fish Taste Twice as Good?", is it even a table in >> that book? I find no file called jac200.xml in the CVS attic either. So if >> there was a file called jac200,xml it must have been a local contribution >> that never was checked in. >> >> >> >> The guy who contributed this was named Craig Campbell. (Must be 20 years >> ago or so) Is it possible to get hold of him? >> >> >> >> -Øystein >> >> >> >> man. 22. aug. 2022 kl. 17:27 skrev Ezequiel Galarce <egala...@gmail.com>: >> >> I don't know, I'm asking the creator of the equity table, maybe he has it >> >> >> >> El lun., 22 ago. 2022 16:06, Ian Shaw <ian.s...@riverauto.co.uk> >> escribió: >> >> H Ezequiel, >> >> >> >> Now that you mention it, I think you’re right. I wonder why it’s been >> omitted from the installation. >> >> >> >> Does anyone here have a copy of the jac200 MET? >> >> >> >> -- Ian >> >> >> >> *From:* Ezequiel Galarce <egala...@gmail.com> >> *Sent:* 22 August 2022 15:01 >> *To:* Ian Shaw <ian.s...@riverauto.co.uk> >> *Subject:* Re: GNU Backgammon >> >> >> >> Hello, I have contacted the creator of "jac050" and "jac100" and he told >> me that he thinks he remembers that he had made a "jac200", I don't have >> any data. >> >> >> >> El lun., 22 ago. 2022 12:51, Ian Shaw <ian.s...@riverauto.co.uk> >> escribió: >> >> Hi Ezequiel, >> >> >> >> I don’t think the jac200 table is available on line. >> >> >> >> If you have the raw data, it’s easy to make a MET that gnubg can use. I >> could create one if you can find the data >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Ian >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Ezequiel Galarce <egala...@gmail.com> >> *Sent:* 19 August 2022 22:19 >> *To:* Ian Shaw <ian.s...@riverauto.co.uk> >> *Subject:* Re: GNU Backgammon >> >> >> >> Hello good evening, can you get the equity table "jac200.xml"? >> >> >> >> El vie., 19 ago. 2022 14:54, Ian Shaw <ian.s...@riverauto.co.uk> >> escribió: >> >>
