Hi Otto,

Please disregard - this obviously was a fluke.  My machine now boots
properly with boot 3.47 after re-running installboot for the output in
the below.  Answers to your questions still provided below.  Apologies
for the noise.

On Mon, Mar 16, 2020 at 07:38:04AM +0100, Otto Moerbeek wrote:
| > Anything else I can provide to help debug this?
| 
| Two questions:
| 
| How did you upgrade? 

I have a script that updates my system for me.  It calls `installboot
-v sd2` (the disk carrying / on my machine).  The output is:

Using / as root
installing bootstrap on /dev/rsd2c
using first-stage /usr/mdec/biosboot, second-stage /usr/mdec/boot
sd2: softraid volume with 1 disk(s)
sd2: installing boot loader on softraid volume
/usr/mdec/boot is 6 blocks x 16384 bytes
sd0a: installing boot blocks on /dev/rsd0c, part offset 144
master boot record (MBR) at sector 0
        partition 3: type 0xA6 offset 64 size 1953520001
/usr/mdec/biosboot will be written at sector 64

/usr/mdec/boot has version 3.47; I don't think biosboot has a version

| Which version pf pxeboot did you load?

It's an older vesion I had lying around on my tftpboot server, the
version was 3.43

To test the newer pxeboot, I rebooted my machine and now (after having
re-run installboot to produce the output I pasted above) it just boots
fine from disk.

| On my laptop I have FDE as well and I also got positive test results
| from others so this does not seem to be a general probem with FDE.

Ack.  Just wanted to be explicit about using FDE.

Again, apologies for the noise - wanted to report the problem early.
Although I'm still not sure what happened (the steps in my upgrade
script before and after installboot have been run, and I did see
installboot output in the terminal where I ran the script).

Thanks,

Paul

|       -Otto
| 
| > 
| > Cheers,
| > 
| > Paul
| > 
| > 
| > OpenBSD 6.6-current (GENERIC.MP) #54: Sat Mar 14 20:03:42 MDT 2020
| >     [email protected]:/usr/src/sys/arch/amd64/compile/GENERIC.MP
| > real mem = 34243903488 (32657MB)
| > avail mem = 33193500672 (31655MB)
| > mpath0 at root
| > scsibus0 at mpath0: 256 targets
| > mainbus0 at root
| > bios0 at mainbus0: SMBIOS rev. 2.7 @ 0xec410 (88 entries)
| > bios0: vendor Dell Inc. version "A22" date 02/01/2018
| > bios0: Dell Inc. OptiPlex 9020
| > acpi0 at bios0: ACPI 5.0
| > acpi0: sleep states S0 S3 S4 S5
| > acpi0: tables DSDT FACP APIC FPDT SLIC LPIT SSDT SSDT SSDT HPET SSDT MCFG 
SSDT ASF! DMAR
| > acpi0: wakeup devices UAR1(S3) RP01(S4) PXSX(S4) PXSX(S4) PXSX(S4) RP05(S4) 
PXSX(S4) PXSX(S4) PXSX(S4) PXSX(S4) GLAN(S4) EHC1(S3) EHC2(S3) XHC_(S4) 
HDEF(S4) PEG0(S4) [...]
| > acpitimer0 at acpi0: 3579545 Hz, 24 bits
| > acpimadt0 at acpi0 addr 0xfee00000: PC-AT compat
| > cpu0 at mainbus0: apid 0 (boot processor)
| > cpu0: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 3691.98 MHz, 06-3c-03
| > cpu0: 
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,SDBG,FMA3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,MOVBE,POPCNT,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,F16C,RDRAND,NXE,PAGE1GB,RDTSCP,LONG,LAHF,ABM,PERF,ITSC,FSGSBASE,TSC_ADJUST,BMI1,AVX2,SMEP,BMI2,ERMS,INVPCID,IBRS,IBPB,STIBP,SENSOR,ARAT,XSAVEOPT,MELTDOWN
| > cpu0: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache
| > cpu0: smt 0, core 0, package 0
| > mtrr: Pentium Pro MTRR support, 10 var ranges, 88 fixed ranges
| > cpu0: apic clock running at 99MHz
| > cpu0: mwait min=64, max=64, C-substates=0.2.1.2.4, IBE
| > cpu1 at mainbus0: apid 2 (application processor)
| > cpu1: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 3691.46 MHz, 06-3c-03
| > cpu1: 
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,SDBG,FMA3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,MOVBE,POPCNT,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,F16C,RDRAND,NXE,PAGE1GB,RDTSCP,LONG,LAHF,ABM,PERF,ITSC,FSGSBASE,TSC_ADJUST,BMI1,AVX2,SMEP,BMI2,ERMS,INVPCID,IBRS,IBPB,STIBP,SENSOR,ARAT,XSAVEOPT,MELTDOWN
| > cpu1: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache
| > cpu1: smt 0, core 1, package 0
| > cpu2 at mainbus0: apid 4 (application processor)
| > cpu2: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 3691.46 MHz, 06-3c-03
| > cpu2: 
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,SDBG,FMA3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,MOVBE,POPCNT,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,F16C,RDRAND,NXE,PAGE1GB,RDTSCP,LONG,LAHF,ABM,PERF,ITSC,FSGSBASE,TSC_ADJUST,BMI1,AVX2,SMEP,BMI2,ERMS,INVPCID,IBRS,IBPB,STIBP,SENSOR,ARAT,XSAVEOPT,MELTDOWN
| > cpu2: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache
| > cpu2: smt 0, core 2, package 0
| > cpu3 at mainbus0: apid 6 (application processor)
| > cpu3: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40GHz, 3691.46 MHz, 06-3c-03
| > cpu3: 
FPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CFLUSH,DS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE,SSE3,PCLMUL,DTES64,MWAIT,DS-CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,SDBG,FMA3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,PCID,SSE4.1,SSE4.2,x2APIC,MOVBE,POPCNT,DEADLINE,AES,XSAVE,AVX,F16C,RDRAND,NXE,PAGE1GB,RDTSCP,LONG,LAHF,ABM,PERF,ITSC,FSGSBASE,TSC_ADJUST,BMI1,AVX2,SMEP,BMI2,ERMS,INVPCID,IBRS,IBPB,STIBP,SENSOR,ARAT,XSAVEOPT,MELTDOWN
| > cpu3: 256KB 64b/line 8-way L2 cache
| > cpu3: smt 0, core 3, package 0
| > ioapic0 at mainbus0: apid 8 pa 0xfec00000, version 20, 24 pins
| > acpihpet0 at acpi0: 14318179 Hz
| > acpimcfg0 at acpi0
| > acpimcfg0: addr 0xf8000000, bus 0-63
| > acpiprt0 at acpi0: bus 0 (PCI0)
| > acpiprt1 at acpi0: bus 1 (RP01)
| > acpiprt2 at acpi0: bus 2 (RP05)
| > acpiprt3 at acpi0: bus -1 (PEG0)
| > acpiprt4 at acpi0: bus -1 (PEG1)
| > acpiprt5 at acpi0: bus -1 (PEG2)
| > acpiec0 at acpi0: not present
| > acpicpu0 at acpi0: C2(200@148 mwait.1@0x33), C1(1000@1 mwait.1), PSS
| > acpicpu1 at acpi0: C2(200@148 mwait.1@0x33), C1(1000@1 mwait.1), PSS
| > acpicpu2 at acpi0: C2(200@148 mwait.1@0x33), C1(1000@1 mwait.1), PSS
| > acpicpu3 at acpi0: C2(200@148 mwait.1@0x33), C1(1000@1 mwait.1), PSS
| > acpitz0 at acpi0: critical temperature is 105 degC
| > acpitz1 at acpi0: critical temperature is 105 degC
| > acpipci0 at acpi0 PCI0: 0x00000010 0x00000011 0x00000000
| > acpicmos0 at acpi0
| > acpibtn0 at acpi0: PWRB
| > "PNP0C14" at acpi0 not configured
| > acpivideo0 at acpi0: GFX0
| > acpivout0 at acpivideo0: DD1F
| > cpu0: using Broadwell MDS workaround
| > cpu0: Enhanced SpeedStep 3691 MHz: speeds: 3401, 3400, 3200, 3000, 2800, 
2700, 2500, 2300, 2100, 1900, 1700, 1500, 1400, 1200, 1000, 800 MHz
| > pci0 at mainbus0 bus 0
| > pchb0 at pci0 dev 0 function 0 "Intel Core 4G Host" rev 0x06
| > inteldrm0 at pci0 dev 2 function 0 "Intel HD Graphics 4600" rev 0x06
| > drm0 at inteldrm0
| > inteldrm0: msi
| > azalia0 at pci0 dev 3 function 0 "Intel Core 4G HD Audio" rev 0x06: msi
| > azalia0: No codecs found
| > xhci0 at pci0 dev 20 function 0 "Intel 8 Series xHCI" rev 0x04: msi, xHCI 
1.0
| > usb0 at xhci0: USB revision 3.0
| > uhub0 at usb0 configuration 1 interface 0 "Intel xHCI root hub" rev 
3.00/1.00 addr 1
| > "Intel 8 Series MEI" rev 0x04 at pci0 dev 22 function 0 not configured
| > puc0 at pci0 dev 22 function 3 "Intel 8 Series KT" rev 0x04: ports: 16 com
| > com4 at puc0 port 0 apic 8 int 19: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo
| > com4: probed fifo depth: 0 bytes
| > em0 at pci0 dev 25 function 0 "Intel I217-LM" rev 0x04: msi, address 
b8:ca:3a:93:03:e8
| > ehci0 at pci0 dev 26 function 0 "Intel 8 Series USB" rev 0x04: apic 8 int 16
| > usb1 at ehci0: USB revision 2.0
| > uhub1 at usb1 configuration 1 interface 0 "Intel EHCI root hub" rev 
2.00/1.00 addr 1
| > azalia1 at pci0 dev 27 function 0 "Intel 8 Series HD Audio" rev 0x04: msi
| > azalia1: codecs: Realtek/0x0280
| > audio0 at azalia1
| > ppb0 at pci0 dev 28 function 0 "Intel 8 Series PCIE" rev 0xd4
| > pci1 at ppb0 bus 1
| > ppb1 at pci0 dev 28 function 4 "Intel 8 Series PCIE" rev 0xd4: msi
| > pci2 at ppb1 bus 2
| > ahci0 at pci2 dev 0 function 0 "Marvell 88SE9128 AHCI" rev 0x20: msi, AHCI 
1.2
| > ahci0: port 7: 1.5Gb/s
| > scsibus1 at ahci0: 32 targets
| > uk0 at scsibus1 targ 7 lun 0: <Marvell, 91xx Config, 1.01>
| > ehci1 at pci0 dev 29 function 0 "Intel 8 Series USB" rev 0x04: apic 8 int 23
| > usb2 at ehci1: USB revision 2.0
| > uhub2 at usb2 configuration 1 interface 0 "Intel EHCI root hub" rev 
2.00/1.00 addr 1
| > pcib0 at pci0 dev 31 function 0 "Intel Q87 LPC" rev 0x04
| > ahci1 at pci0 dev 31 function 2 "Intel 8 Series AHCI" rev 0x04: msi, AHCI 
1.3
| > ahci1: port 0: 6.0Gb/s
| > ahci1: port 1: 1.5Gb/s
| > ahci1: port 2: 6.0Gb/s
| > scsibus2 at ahci1: 32 targets
| > sd0 at scsibus2 targ 0 lun 0: <ATA, Samsung SSD 850, EMT0> 
naa.5002538d41b86e4d
| > sd0: 953869MB, 512 bytes/sector, 1953525168 sectors, thin
| > cd0 at scsibus2 targ 1 lun 0: <HL-DT-ST, DVD+-RW GT80N, A103> removable
| > sd1 at scsibus2 targ 2 lun 0: <ATA, WDC WD60EFRX-68L, 82.0> 
naa.50014ee2b81f4111
| > sd1: 5723166MB, 512 bytes/sector, 11721045168 sectors
| > ichiic0 at pci0 dev 31 function 3 "Intel 8 Series SMBus" rev 0x04: apic 8 
int 18
| > iic0 at ichiic0
| > spdmem0 at iic0 addr 0x50: 8GB DDR3 SDRAM PC3-12800
| > spdmem1 at iic0 addr 0x51: 8GB DDR3 SDRAM PC3-12800
| > spdmem2 at iic0 addr 0x52: 8GB DDR3 SDRAM PC3-12800
| > spdmem3 at iic0 addr 0x53: 8GB DDR3 SDRAM PC3-12800
| > isa0 at pcib0
| > isadma0 at isa0
| > com0 at isa0 port 0x3f8/8 irq 4: ns16550a, 16 byte fifo
| > pckbc0 at isa0 port 0x60/5 irq 1 irq 12
| > pckbd0 at pckbc0 (kbd slot)
| > wskbd0 at pckbd0: console keyboard
| > pcppi0 at isa0 port 0x61
| > spkr0 at pcppi0
| > wbsio0 at isa0 port 0x2e/2 rev 0x00
| > vmm0 at mainbus0: VMX/EPT (using slow L1TF mitigation)
| > uhidev0 at uhub0 port 3 configuration 1 interface 0 "RDing TEMPERHUM1V1.2" 
rev 2.00/0.01 addr 2
| > uhidev0: iclass 3/1, 1 report id
| > ukbd0 at uhidev0 reportid 1: 8 variable keys, 5 key codes
| > wskbd1 at ukbd0 mux 1
| > uhidev1 at uhub0 port 3 configuration 1 interface 1 "RDing TEMPERHUM1V1.2" 
rev 2.00/0.01 addr 2
| > uhidev1: iclass 3/1
| > ugold0 at uhidev1
| > uhub3 at uhub0 port 4 configuration 1 interface 0 "VIA Labs, Inc. USB2.0 
Hub" rev 2.10/d.a0 addr 3
| > uhidev2 at uhub3 port 4 configuration 1 interface 0 "Metadot - Das Keyboard 
Das Keyboard" rev 2.00/1.00 addr 4
| > uhidev2: iclass 3/1
| > ukbd1 at uhidev2: 8 variable keys, 6 key codes
| > wskbd2 at ukbd1 mux 1
| > uhidev3 at uhub3 port 4 configuration 1 interface 1 "Metadot - Das Keyboard 
Das Keyboard" rev 2.00/1.00 addr 4
| > uhidev3: iclass 3/0, 3 report ids
| > uhid0 at uhidev3 reportid 1: input=0, output=0, feature=7
| > uhid1 at uhidev3 reportid 2: input=1, output=0, feature=0
| > uhid2 at uhidev3 reportid 3: input=3, output=0, feature=0
| > uhub4 at uhub0 port 5 configuration 1 interface 0 "Texas Instruments 
product 0x8044" rev 2.10/1.00 addr 5
| > uhub5 at uhub0 port 6 configuration 1 interface 0 "Texas Instruments 
product 0x8044" rev 2.10/1.00 addr 6
| > uvideo0 at uhub0 port 9 configuration 1 interface 0 "Logitech QuickCam Pro 
9000" rev 2.00/0.08 addr 7
| > video0 at uvideo0
| > uaudio0 at uhub0 port 9 configuration 1 interface 3 "Logitech QuickCam Pro 
9000" rev 2.00/0.08 addr 7
| > uaudio0: class v1, high-speed, sync, channels: 0 play, 1 rec, 2 ctls
| > audio1 at uaudio0
| > uhidev4 at uhub0 port 10 configuration 1 interface 0 "Logitech USB Gaming 
Mouse" rev 2.00/46.00 addr 8
| > uhidev4: iclass 3/1
| > ums0 at uhidev4: 16 buttons, Z and W dir
| > wsmouse0 at ums0 mux 0
| > uhidev5 at uhub0 port 10 configuration 1 interface 1 "Logitech USB Gaming 
Mouse" rev 2.00/46.00 addr 8
| > uhidev5: iclass 3/0, 17 report ids
| > uhid3 at uhidev5 reportid 16: input=6, output=6, feature=0
| > uhid4 at uhidev5 reportid 17: input=19, output=19, feature=0
| > ugold0: 2 sensors type si7006 (temperature and humidity)
| > uhub6 at uhub0 port 21 configuration 1 interface 0 "VIA Labs, Inc. USB3.0 
Hub" rev 3.00/d.a1 addr 9
| > uhub7 at uhub1 port 1 configuration 1 interface 0 "Intel Rate Matching Hub" 
rev 2.00/0.04 addr 2
| > uhub8 at uhub2 port 1 configuration 1 interface 0 "Intel Rate Matching Hub" 
rev 2.00/0.04 addr 2
| > vscsi0 at root
| > scsibus3 at vscsi0: 256 targets
| > softraid0 at root
| > scsibus4 at softraid0: 256 targets
| > sd2 at scsibus4 targ 1 lun 0: <OPENBSD, SR CRYPTO, 006>
| > sd2: 953866MB, 512 bytes/sector, 1953519473 sectors
| > root on sd2a (a0b80508b6693ba1.a) swap on sd2b dump on sd2b
| > inteldrm0: 1920x1080, 32bpp
| > wsdisplay0 at inteldrm0 mux 1: console (std, vt100 emulation), using wskbd0
| > wskbd1: connecting to wsdisplay0
| > wskbd2: connecting to wsdisplay0
| > wsdisplay0: screen 1-5 added (std, vt100 emulation)
| > wskbd1: disconnecting from wsdisplay0
| > wskbd1 detached
| > ukbd0 detached
| > uhidev0 detached
| > ugold0 detached
| > uhidev1 detached
| > uhidev0 at uhub0 port 3 configuration 1 interface 0 "RDing TEMPERHUM1V1.2" 
rev 2.00/0.01 addr 2
| > uhidev0: iclass 3/1, 1 report id
| > ukbd0 at uhidev0 reportid 1: 8 variable keys, 5 key codes
| > wskbd1 at ukbd0: console keyboard, using wsdisplay0
| > uhidev1 at uhub0 port 3 configuration 1 interface 1 "RDing TEMPERHUM1V1.2" 
rev 2.00/0.01 addr 2
| > uhidev1: iclass 3/1
| > ugold0 at uhidev1
| > ugold0: 2 sensors type si7006 (temperature and humidity)
| > uhub4 detached
| > uhub5 detached
| > uhub4 at uhub0 port 5 configuration 1 interface 0 "Texas Instruments 
product 0x8044" rev 2.10/1.00 addr 5
| > uhub5 at uhub0 port 6 configuration 1 interface 0 "Texas Instruments 
product 0x8044" rev 2.10/1.00 addr 6
| > 
| > 
| > On Mon, Mar 09, 2020 at 07:28:10PM +0100, Paul de Weerd wrote:
| > | On Mon, Mar 09, 2020 at 06:47:10PM +0100, Sebastien Marie wrote:
| > | | On Mon, Mar 09, 2020 at 04:51:00PM +0000, Anthony Campbell wrote:
| > | | > On 09 Mar 2020, Otto Moerbeek wrote:
| > | | > > On Mon, Mar 09, 2020 at 03:56:53PM +0000, Anthony Campbell wrote:
| > | | > > 
| > | | > > > This discussion is very interesting. The same thing happened to me
| > | | > > > on 6 March, when after completing the upgrade my Dell Optiplex 
3020
| > | | > > > refused to boot. I assumed it was a hardware failure and spent the
| > | | > > > next three days bringing up an older Acer n460 which the Dell had
| > | | > > > replaced.
| > | | 
| > | | yes, it looks like a hardware failure.
| > | 
| > | Indeed it did :)  My machine would not POST anymore (Dell Optiplex
| > | 9020; dmesg at the end)
| > | 
| > | | in my case, 4 hosts with the same motherboard model failed at the same 
time (I
| > | | ran sysupgrade via ansible), so hardware failure was a bit excluded.
| > | 
| > | I only have this one machine that showed the behaviour.  Several VMs,
| > | my gateway and my laptop worked fine so I didn't really tie it to the
| > | bootloader changes (especially since the machine didn't POST).  I
| > | couldn't boot from any other medium as long as the boot disk (an SSD)
| > | was connected; my conclusion was that a failed SSD prevented the
| > | system from POSTing (something I've seen in the past with failed
| > | HDDs).
| > | 
| > | | > > > I don't have the facility at present to put the disk in another
| > | | > > > machine so it looks like I'm stuck. 
| > | | 
| > | | I agree it could be difficult. If the disk is plugged, bios stuck. If 
the disk
| > | | is unplugged, bios is fine, but you can't modify the disk data.
| > | | 
| > | | As sthen@ said, you could try to change bios setting to make the bios 
to not
| > | | look at the disk. I dunno if it would work or not.
| > | 
| > | I played around with that a little bit, but didn't get to a working
| > | machine.
| > | 
| > | | Alternatively, if you disk support hotplugging (sata disk should), try 
to
| > | | connect the disk after the bios started could help. If so, I would try 
to plug
| > | | it as soon as possible after bios init.
| > | 
| > | That was a bit of a scary option for me :)
| > | 
| > | | Depending your configuration, you could also try to use USB/SATA or 
USB/IDE
| > | | adapter (depending your disk), in order to plug the disk after bios 
init. For
| > | | me, I had problem with this method too: when my sata disk is plugged in 
sata
| > | | connector it is showed with 512 bytes/sector, whereas with USB/SATA 
connector it
| > | | showed with 4096 bytes/sector and so disklabel is incoherent.
| > | 
| > | In the end, after reading Otto's mail about reverting his changes, I
| > | connected the SSD from my not-booting machine to my laptop and
| > | upgraded the snapshot on it.  That allowed my desktop machine to boot
| > | properly again.
| > | 
| > | I've seen Otto's commit message from earlier today, so I will test out
| > | the next snap on my machine tomorrow.  At least now I know not to jump
| > | to conclusions about failing hardware :)
| > | 
| > | Thanks to Otto for his work on this area; looking forward to running
| > | my machine on all-ffs2.
| > | 
| > | Cheers,
| > | 
| > | Paul
| > | 
| > | -- 
| > | >++++++++[<++++++++++>-]<+++++++.>+++[<------>-]<.>+++[<+
| > | +++++++++++>-]<.>++[<------------>-]<+.--------------.[-]
| > |                  http://www.weirdnet.nl/                 
| > | 
| > 
| > -- 
| > >++++++++[<++++++++++>-]<+++++++.>+++[<------>-]<.>+++[<+
| > +++++++++++>-]<.>++[<------------>-]<+.--------------.[-]
| >                  http://www.weirdnet.nl/                 

-- 
>++++++++[<++++++++++>-]<+++++++.>+++[<------>-]<.>+++[<+
+++++++++++>-]<.>++[<------------>-]<+.--------------.[-]
                 http://www.weirdnet.nl/                 

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