Hi Gary,
Thanks for picking this up. I wasn’t sure if there were separate PMCs for the Java and C projects, so keeping makes sense if Xalan-J is continuing. Should the project make a formal announcement of the retirement of Xalan-C to the Attic? Is that something you would pick up as part of moving it to the Attic? As part of the work I was doing for Xalan-C, I was responsible for packaging it for software collections such as vcpkg and homebrew. I would like to retire these as well, and it would likely also make sense for Linux distributors to also phase out distribution of Xalan-C as well once it’s formally retired. Unless there are any major objections, I will proceed to remove them as part of winding up my involvement. It might be worth making that recommendation to distributors in any announcement we make. Kind regards, Roger From: Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> Sent: 17 October 2022 20:17 To: d...@xalan.apache.org Cc: c-users@xalan.apache.org Subject: Re: [VOTE] Moving Xalan-C to the Attic I'll put it on the to do list. The PMC will NOT be dissolved because we are still dealing with Xalan-J. Gaty On Mon, Oct 17, 2022, 13:43 Roger Leigh <rle...@codelibre.net<mailto:rle...@codelibre.net>> wrote: Hi Gary, Thanks to you and everyone else for responding. It looks like the final tally is 3 (a) and 1 (b). I hope this meets the required quorum. So assuming this is OK with everyone, would it be OK for you as the PMC chairman to handle the moving of the Xalan-C project to the Attic? Would it also be possible to remove me from the PMC (or does the PMC get dissolved entirely)? Do we want to recommend that organisations such as the various distributors of Xalan-C retire it at this time as well? Or just notify them of the move to the Attic and let them exercise their own judgement on the risks? Kind regards, Roger From: Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com<mailto:garydgreg...@gmail.com>> Sent: 15 October 2022 12:42 To: d...@xalan.apache.org<mailto:d...@xalan.apache.org> Cc: c-users@xalan.apache.org<mailto:c-users@xalan.apache.org> Subject: Re: [VOTE] Moving Xalan-C to the Attic Retirement of Xalan-C seems ok to me if only due to my lack of involvement with it; I've only helped on the Java side IIRC. So that would be (a) for me. Gary On Fri, Oct 7, 2022, 08:19 Roger Leigh <rle...@codelibre.net<mailto:rle...@codelibre.net>> wrote: Dear all, It’s been over three months since my original email on this subject. There is a related discussion about this on the Xerces-C++ mailing list just now, and it would be useful to reach a conclusion on this for Xalan-C as well. I've updated the git statistics I did earlier in the year, which can be viewed or downloaded here: xerces-xalan-git-monthly.xlsx. There are no changes—there has not been a single commit to the source repository since 2021. There has not been any change to the maintenance status of the project since my last email: there are no active maintainers, no one has shown any interest in doing any maintenance, and none of the previous maintainers who are still present actually use Xalan any longer—so there is little prospect of previously active maintainers returning. I myself will be leaving the project once this question is answered irrespective of the outcome—I no longer use Xalan-C, I have no time to commit to it for future work and releases, I just want to see it retired gracefully so that we don’t leave anyone with the mistaken impression that this is a project which is active and well supported when it is most certainly not. This is not a library which new projects should be considering to use.<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> This is the commit history since 01 Oct 2012:<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> $ git shortlog -s --oneline --all --since "01 OCT 2012"<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> 1 Benjamin Beasley<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> 1 Bill Blough<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> 1 Biswapriyo Nath<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> 1 Kvarec Lezki<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> 182 Roger Leigh<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> 29 Steven J. Hathaway<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> I would like for the PMC to vote on the future of the project. Do we<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> 1. Retire the project to the Attic<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> 2. Keep the project going<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> I’m not sure if I’m formally a PMC member or not, but realistically I’m the only one who has done any work on the project for the past 8 years. So if I can vote on this I’ll vote for (a).<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> Kind regards,<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> Roger<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> From: rle...@codelibre.net <rle...@codelibre.net> Sent: 22 June 2022 23:21 To: d...@xalan.apache.org; c-users@xalan.apache.org Subject: Future of xalan-c<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> Dear all,<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> I wanted to write this email to sound out where the project is, where it is going, and whether or not it has a future. If it does not have a future, is it time to wrap up the project and move it to the Attic?<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> To start with, a bit of context. This is a summary of the project’s commit activity over the previous 22 years:<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> Back in July 2020, just a little under two years ago, I released Xalan-C 1.12. This was the first release since Xalan-C 1.11 in October 2012, and it incorporated a number of patches which had been accumulated over the course of years by several downstream distributors.<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> https://apache.github.io/xalan-c/releases.html#major-changes shows the major changes in this release. On the above graph, this release is comprised of the commits from 2019 to 2020. I was the sole committer for this release.<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> The previous 1.11 release was made in October 2012 with Steven J. Hathaway being the principal contributor.<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> The previous 1.10 release was made in October 2005 with David N Berton and Dmitry Hayes being the principal contributors.<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> The previous 1.9 release was made in December 2004 with June Ng, Matthew Hoyt, David N Berton and Dmitry Hayes being the principal contributors.<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> The previous 1.8 release was made in April 2004 with Matthew Hoyt, David N Berton and Dmitry Hayes being the principal contributors.<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> The main points I’d like to make here are the following:<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> * Active development of Xalan-C effectively finished with the 1.10 release in 2005. The vast majority of work since then has been little more than essential bugfixing and portability work to support new platforms and toolchains.<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> * 1.11 was a bugfix release. It was primarily comprised of essential bugfixes, and fixes for building with different toolchains on different platforms and some documentation work. There was one code improvement of note: “Add number and nodeset types as top-level stylesheet parameters”<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> * 1.12 was a bugfix release. It was primarily comprised of essential bugfixes, and fixes for building on different platforms, with the CMake support generalising that to build on current platforms, plus the documentation switch to Markdown. There were zero new features or improvements outside essential bugfixing.<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> * There is essentially ~zero developer mailing list activity<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> * There is essentially ~zero user mailing list activity<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> * Community involvement on GitHub is present but at very low and sporadic levels. We have three PRs from contributors other than myself (https://github.com/apache/xalan-c/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed). One was a triviality, two were portability fixes just altering platform-specific ifdefs. There is one open PR (https://github.com/apache/xalan-c/pulls?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Apr). This looks simple but I’m not sure of the impact in case of unexpected subtleties.<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> I became involved in the project for pragmatic reasons—I worked on a project using XSLT and picked up Xalan-C as a dependency. I wrote and contributed the CMake support and worked on the 1.12 release for that reason. But I don’t know the underlying codebase, and I can’t do any real feature development or deep bugfixing. I don’t have the expertise with XSLT, or the time to do this. And since I no longer work on any projects using Xalan-C, I’m no longer realistically able to do any further maintenance work either. If I hadn’t done the most recent work and made the 1.12 release, it’s most likely that the incorporation of community patchsets and making a point release would not have happened. No one aside from me has worked on Xalan-C since Steven J Hathaway’s last work in 2012. <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> I don’t personally think there is sufficient community involvement or developer involvement to realistically support Xalan-C as an active project in any sense. There is no one working on it. And while I’m sure there are some users, there’s next to no active engagement of users as a community.<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> I’ve made a good effort to keep the project going for the near- to medium-term. The CMake build made it possible to build on all contemporary platforms. The documentation switch to Markdown made it possible to build without obsolete and unavailable Java libraries. The bugfixes we included in 1.12 fixed a number of critical issues. So 1.12 should serve as a usable release for the foreseeable future even in the absence of further development.<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> However, I don’t see a future for anything beyond 1.12 unless there is a dramatic change. XSLT usage is declining, and Xalan-C doesn’t support XSLT 2.0 and beyond. Rather than letting the current situation linger on indefinitely, I wanted to suggest we take stock of where we are, and if there is consensus to do so, I think it would be advisable to draw a line at this point and end the project gracefully.<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> <https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> Kind regards,<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA> Roger<https://codelibreconsulting.sharepoint.com/:x:/s/Opensourcesoftware/EabAzxgzU3pCjUSKSVvWjZgBlUGZUb91q2PVMkGk1oaIHw?e=MVBvPA>
