On 04/ 1/10 03:45 AM, Rainer Orth wrote:
Danek,
...
As for the pkg(5) bug, the point, which may have been lost in the shuffle,
is that until the depot supports fine grained authorizations, the
recommended way to publish packages is to publish either to a fully
Where is this recommended? I haven't seen this in the final 2010.03 IPS
Guide, but may simply be blind.
Recommendations are generally provided on demand due to the continually
evolving nature of the project or because no one has yet had time to
document it formally. A developer's guide and expanded documentation
for administrators is scheduled (and some of it has been started) for
future delivery.
...
I think that what was obvious to the pkg(5) team -- namely that safety is
entirely achievable without fine grained authorizations, and how to achieve
it -- was not obvious to you, and that disconnect was not recognized and
communicated effectively. I hope that we've managed to do so now.
Indeed, and I fear that's one of the problems with the current speed of
IPS development and wide range of deployment: customers start (or are
forced to start, given that the rug is pulled under them with the
removal of SVr4 packaging, Jumpstart, and Flash) using this stuff in the
wild, while important documentation, caveats etc. is either missing, sort
of hidden in the IPS hg repo or on wikis.sun.com. Bringing all this
together in a single place would be very important to avoid disconnects
like this in the future.
Remember that no enterprise-level release has yet been made based on the
OpenSolaris 200x releases and so some of the functionality and
documentation you are expecting will not yet be available.
If, given this information, our priorities still appear to you to be poor,
you have the options of either contributing to the project, or talking to
I'm doing so, at present more the the form of bug reports and RFEs than
contributing code: there are only so many hours in a day, and my python
knowledge is practically zero.
The only so many hours in a day applies to those developing the project
as well, which is why it was suggested that escalations or contributions
are the most helpful method to assist in the implementation of specific
functionality you desire.
Angry emails on public forums, as cathartic as they may be from time to
time, are not helpful, particularly when the new folks in charge are still
making up their minds whether open development is worth the cost.
Perhaps true, but on the other hand, I often sense what I consider a
highly problematic reaction from some members of the IPS team. The
tenor often is: we're still in development, we know the requirements and
constraints, either contribute or shut up. What this seems to forget is
that many sites are sort of forced to use what is available *now*, and
have been working with packaging software and automated installation for
years if not decades, so they understand their use cases just as well.
However, you also need to remember that this project is not yet feature
complete. Some things will be difficult, some things are not
documented, and yes, all of that will be better at some future point.
But, as you said, only so many hours in the day...
-Shawn
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