Well Mariano I don't blame you for writing that. I tried not to sound
like a whiner, but evidently I didn't succeed, and I regret that.

As for contributing some documentation, as I pointed out in the earlier
message, I do not think I am a good person to write about Cake because
I don't properly understand the unifying concepts behind it. I have yet
to see a decent set of explanations and examples which might help me
properly understand those concepts.

Maybe it's because I'm not sufficiently skilled in this particular
style of object-oriented framework programming, or maybe I'm just
obtuse, or maybe I really am a rotten whiner. I don't know.

But let me say one thing, again not nice or polite, and yes, in
advance, I apologize:

I would never release so much uncommented and undocumented code into
the wild.

For my part, I created what I think is a nice little system in Cake,
for a school, involving students, teachers, courses and schedule
blocks. I recently posted in this forum something about my use of SQL
views, using some of those multi-table joins. I wrote that in response
to someone's question about the use of SQL views, which I think have a
lot of potential to simplify complex queries and improve the ease of
thinking about a database structure.

My little application also features a specialized multi-record edit
screen, styled for user ease. Getting that particular screen to work
compelled me to reverse engineer the code for saving data from
many-to-many relationships in Cake. I wrote quite a few revisions of
the code and finally got it working properly.

But then another client materialized, and I wanted to use Cake to set
up his authorization system. Probably I shouldn't have done it this
way, but I fetched a copy of the pre-release Bakery and used the auth
from that. I got the authorization to work, but then I had to take a
break from using Cake because it was simply too difficult for me to
work with. Even relatively simple changes would have me scratching my
head, and then while putting in the changes I would wind up breaking
something else.

If I had just had some more documentation, I think I would still be
using Cake in the most recent parts of my current project. Instead I
used one of those code-gen packages for Windows, which bugs the hell
out of me, because it's intrinsically so inelegant and like a black
box. But it does work.

On that topic, the role of code generation in Cake is very unclear to
me. Bake is very, very helpful in getting started, but it could do so
much more, and it could generate code which would illuminate the very
problems I've been struggling with. That can be one of the great
advantages of code generation within a framework: it can be so helpful
in showing a programmer how to code properly for the framework.

A framework is not just about code. It's about an overall point of view
and a style about how things can best be done when trying to utilize
that body of code. I think the whole huge Perl system is a good example
of this problem. How many people really understand enough to take
advantage of all the much-touted Perl code that's available? Not many,
I'm guessing, and I suspect that's why Perl has apparently fallen
behind other languages such as php in popularity over the past few
years. It's just too confusing.

I've tried to show that I'm not just sitting on my rear end complaining
about things. I sincerely believe that the lack of a certain minimal
level of explanation and documentation is a serious, sometimes even
fatal weakness, especially in a project as wide-ranging and ambitious
as this one.

Oh, what the hell. It's not my project. I think it's a very, very
interesting effort, with a great deal of merit, but I fear for its
long-term success if the documentation does not start to keep up with
the coding.

I am truly sorry to be so cranky, and I hope lots of readers will
correct my egregious errors and general wrong-headedness.

Thank you, Mariano, for taking a stab at straightening me out.

Regards,

Ralph


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