Nate & John:
First let me emphasize that this way or another, it is fine by me. I don't expect anything from anyone, I don't demand anyone to help me, I don't require that the documentation be by any standards and I am not complaining about it, it is better than not having any of this at all. You don't owe me anything and I realize that you do all this tremendous work in your spare time just because you care for it and enjoy it. I didn't say that newbies can't contribute, but don't expect them to come and start writing documentation or submitting tickets as soon as they arrive. And more importantly, don't get upset when they don't. They won't. Because a newbie comes to a project with a mentality of "Is this project worth it? What is there for *ME*?", nobody comes to a project they are not familiar with thinking "I want to contribute". So yes, they will ask the same questions over and over, they will ignore the faqs and search feature, they will seem clueless and sometimes rude and demanding, that's how it is. It is the job of the existing community to make them feel welcome despite their annoyances, to make them feel comfortable with the project and to make them want to stick around. Then, some of them will stay and move toward a "hey, this is cool! I want to contribute!" way of thinking. And a big part of this falls on the documentation, articles and examples. The importance of newbies, as John wrote, is by providing fresh and unbiased eyes. They raise issues you long learned to live with, their questions turn into faqs. And it is up to you to use this information efficiently. So while saying "if you are not happy with it, help to make it better" response makes perfect sense in your eyes (and it is, I was on that side of the fence as well), it may not come across that way to someone who just arrived and trying to make the first steps - "Me? Help to make it better? Why? I just got here, I am not even sure all this is right for me". I think that as much as it is my (or any newbie) interest to get the most out of this project and have my questions answered as quickly and thoroughly as possible, it is in the best interests of the project and its community as well because in the long run, any project of this nature requires constant influx of new people to be successful. So we all basically want the same thing :) On Mar 5, 9:08 pm, "nate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Barduck: > > Let's not forget that the wisdom of the masses has already been > aggregated on this very list. 95% of all questions any newbie could > ever ask have already been asked--and answered--many, many, many > times. See here:http://cake.insertdesignhere.com/posts/view/11 > > The idea that newbies can't contribute to the documentation effort is > also not true. Since almost all newbie questions have already been > asked (and answered), any newbie that used this mailing list to find > an answer to their question could easily take a few minutes to track > down the most relevant information and codify that information into a > thorough documentation ticket. But that all assumes that said newbie > actually cared enough to think ahead like that, ahem. > > On Mar 5, 12:16 pm, "barduck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Why is it that every time someone comments of the insufficient > > documentation you Cake veterans jump in and say something along the > > lines "so make it better"? > > > Well, guess what, there is a catch - anyone who actually NEEDS the > > documentation is not in a position (yet) to contribute to it. And > > anyone who knows enough about Cake to contribute to the documentation > > can't REALLY see why the documentation is lacking. > > > Let's face it, like with any other framework/platform/language, it > > looks totally different from the perspective of a total newbie to what > > it looks like to someone who already comfortable with it. Over time, > > when we gain knowledge and things become familiar, we tend to, > > naturally, diminish the importance of documenting every little detail > > and we don't understand what the newbies are complaining about when > > they say they are totally lost in the documentation. That's the way it > > usually works. > > > The only way to make any progress in this front is for the new comers > > to express their problems and concerns in constructive manner and for > > the Cake developers and veterans to listen to these problems and > > complaints and think how to address them. There is no other way. > > > There is theoretically nothing wrong with saying "if you don't like > > the documentation, help to make it better" but it doesn't really help > > the newbie who may be raising a valid point and it doesn't help Cake > > to bring new people into the community. And an active and thriving > > community is essential to any project of this kind. > > > So please don't take it personally, all of us appreciate the hard work > > that is being done both on the code and documentation but looking > > through the eyes of a total newbie, the documentation is...well, can > > be frustrating at times. > > > Cheers. > > - barduck > > > On Mar 2, 9:21 pm, "nate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Great, I'll take that as you voulenteering to fix it. You can contact > > > the documentation lead at psychic at cakephp dot org. > > > > On Mar 2, 1:54 pm, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > If you are going to continue developing with cakePHP get used to this. > > > > I love cakePHP for a lot of things, but this community has some > > > > terrible documentation. > > > > > skatona wrote: > > > > > oh man, thank you. I've been going crazy thinking that they wouldn't > > > > > possibly let something like that slip by, so have been staring at each > > > > > and every individual character in my code to see what I messed up. > > > > > Over and over. > > > > > > Thanks a ton! > > > > > > On Mar 1, 2:30 pm, "bernardo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > You are right. There is a bug in the code used in the screencast. I > > > > > > think the problem is that edit.thtml is copied from add.thtml but > > > > > > forget to include the line <?php echo $html->hidden('Post/id'); ?> > > > > > > so > > > > > > the id is not posted and the controller ends adding a new post. The > > > > > > code in the manual is correct though. > > > > > > > I wonder how nobody noticed this before... > > > > > > > On Mar 1, 1:41 pm, "skatona" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I must be losing it. > > > > > > > > I'm a veteran php web developer and a friend said cakephp was > > > > > > > awesome > > > > > > > so I've checked it out and gone through a couple screencasts. Am > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > crazy, or is the Blog Tutorial screencast wrong? More > > > > > > > specifically, > > > > > > > the Edit functionality does NOT edit a post. It merely Adds one. > > > > > > > > Watch the screencast again. You click Edit, it brings up the > > > > > > > Title > > > > > > > and Body textboxes with the information from that post, but when > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > edit it and save - it just creates a new post! I thought Edit > > > > > > > meant > > > > > > > "change", not "give me the info so I can use it in another NEW > > > > > > > post". > > > > > > > > Someone please help me out here. > > > > > > > > -Shaun --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cake PHP" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
