@euromark:
In fact, web tests are written very fast as soon as you have written a
few of them and can copy/paste together new ones. I agree with you,
it's always important to have a good cost/value balance, but it
doesn't cost nearly anything to at least write some
$this->assertGet('myapp.localhost/users/index');
(Where assertGet() is a custom method I wrote that checks for a 200
header and some other stuff a successful request should have.)
It's also nearly no work to type some data into a form like
$this->assertAndSetField('data[User][name]', 'testuser');
$this->assertAndSetField('data[User][password]', 'testpass');
...and submit it like
$this->assertAndSubmit('Login');
$this->assertText('Welcome, testuser');
By only writing these 5-10 lines of code, you can be sure that logging
into your system works, which is very crucial to any application and
needs a lot of things in the background to work, too.
In my opinion, this is a very high value for very low cost.
I guess, because CakePHP still lacks support for a testing database
for web tests, web tests aren't really used extensively. This is very
sad. Myself, I am using a pimped WebTestCase class that is able to
connect to the test database... maybe I should release this one as a
plugin, so other users could use it? (Some time ago I released one
already, but it's not up to date anymore... So if there's some
interest in this feature, tell me!)
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 5:34 PM, Ma'moon <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hemmm, That is true, but i think learning PHPUnit instead of simpleTest has
> its own benefits as well, at the end when you learn PHPUnit, simpleTest
> "which is being used for Cake1.x user" will be a snap, and i believe that
> PHPUnit is going to be the standard automated testing platform adopted by
> CakePHP 2.x, above this and that i am only throwing my 5 cints :)
>
> On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 6:23 PM, euromark <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> the problem with the book is that its mainly phpunit specific
>> not a good resource for a cake1.x user which wants to start off
>> testing :)
>>
>> On 9 Jan., 11:24, "Ma'moon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > Here is very good book for unit testing, i suggest you start reading it
>> > instead of reading tuts or articles in a separated
>> > manner:http://www.limespace.de/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/practical-php-test...
>> > You can legally use the book and distribute it :)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 5:13 AM, netusco <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > > thanks! ok you convinced me at least to give it a try.
>> > > I guess what I would like to find is a blog that could explain well
>> > > all the parts needed to develop apps correctly, as I just find things
>> > > here and there and I have to figure out if I need to implement them or
>> > > not. Probably because I never worked for a "boss" in development
>> >
>> > > On 9 jan, 00:35, nurvzy <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > > > Testing is essential for any application you intend on maintaining
>> > > > or
>> > > > will be passing between developers.
>> >
>> > > > In regards to click testing, sure -- test your app yourself, if you
>> > > > only do it once you've saved time by not writing the test. But now
>> > > > lets say you then refactor a bit/add a new feature. Well now you
>> > > > need
>> > > > to verify all the stuff that was working before still works. So you
>> > > > hand test your app again and now you're officially wasting time.
>> > > > Had
>> > > > you just taken the extra few minutes to script your test you'd
>> > > > always
>> > > > be able to run it anytime you needed to reassure yourself (or your
>> > > > boss/client) that things are working. Say you make another change,
>> > > > and now you have to go back and test by hand again. Now you're
>> > > > wasting your time and your boss's/client's money. Your time is your
>> > > > own to waste, but you won't be in business long if you're in the
>> > > > habit
>> > > > of wasting your boss's money. By not scripting the tests you'd
>> > > > otherwise do by hand that's exactly what you're doing -- wasting
>> > > > resources.
>> >
>> > > > That's not to say 100% coverage is the only way, but certainly test
>> > > > things that have broken before, are key parts of your application,
>> > > > and
>> > > > specs written by your employer/client. At the end of the day, by
>> > > > testing your app you'll gain more confidence in your app, the fear
>> > > > of
>> > > > refactoring will be gone and you actually have something to show
>> > > > your
>> > > > boss/client that it works the way they specified.
>> >
>> > > > Testing isn't a waste of time, *NOT* testing your application is a
>> > > > waste of time.
>> >
>> > > > Nick
>> >
>> > > > On Jan 8, 8:01 am, netusco <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > thanks, I appreciate the answers and I understand them but seen
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > amount of work needed on testing... isn't it faster to just test
>> > > > > your
>> > > > > app directly and debug when there's errors on it? I've been doing
>> > > > > like
>> > > > > this so far.. But I wonder if I should change that habit.
>> >
>> > > > > On 7 jan, 20:06, euromark <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > > you are partly wrong
>> >
>> > > > > > for small apps the amount of time needed for complete code
>> > > > > > coverage
>> > > > > > and full web test cases
>> > > > > > is far too much compared to the value.
>> > > > > > it would be wonderful, but we simply dont have the resources
>> >
>> > > > > > so test the stuff that is tested the quickest, test the stuff
>> > > > > > that
>> > > can
>> > > > > > easily break or go wrong
>> > > > > > thats it, high coverage with low time costs.
>> >
>> > > > > > this way you have a tradeoff between those to variables
>> > > > > > and it already helps MORE than not using it at all - even if the
>> > > > > > time
>> > > > > > to write the tests wasn't that big of a deal.
>> > > > > > as soon as you have more time you can work on the coverage task
>> > > again.
>> >
>> > > > > > but testing itself is a must!
>> >
>> > > > > > On 7 Jan., 15:52, Joshua Muheim <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > > > Dear netusco
>> >
>> > > > > > > I know exactly what you mean - most CakePHP tutorials about
>> > > > > > > testing
>> > > > > > > aren't that great; they expect you already have plenty of
>> > > > > > > ideas on
>> > > why
>> > > > > > > testing is good, and they only explain how in theory you can
>> > > > > > > use
>> > > the
>> > > > > > > SimpleTest library to test your CakePHP apps the same way you
>> > > > > > > have
>> > > > > > > already tested a dozen of apps before with other testing
>> > > frameworks.
>> >
>> > > > > > > YOU SHOULD REALLY DO TESTING. That's what I really want to
>> > > > > > > entrust
>> > > to
>> > > > > > > you. But I agree with you: the examples from the cook book
>> > > > > > > aren't
>> > > very
>> > > > > > > authentic. Such fine-grained testing you want to do when you
>> > > > > > > are
>> > > e.g.
>> > > > > > > creating a library that absolutely relies on every part of
>> > > > > > > itself
>> > > and
>> > > > > > > that you have written yourself, so you can't rely on the idea
>> > > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > anybody else has already done the biggest parts of testing for
>> > > > > > > you.
>> >
>> > > > > > > When using a good framework like CakePHP, you can rely on
>> > > > > > > exactly
>> > > > > > > that: most of the functionalities are tested and have proven
>> > > > > > > to
>> > > work.
>> > > > > > > So you don't really need to test *everything* in your
>> > > > > > > application,
>> > > if
>> > > > > > > you don't want to, but you should take a pragmatic approach to
>> > > testing
>> > > > > > > it in a way you have a good cost/benefit balance.
>> >
>> > > > > > > If you really don't want to much testing, then I suggest you
>> > > > > > > use at
>> > > > > > > least the scriptable browser of SimpleTest. This way you can
>> > > > > > > check
>> > > > > > > with very small effort whether the main parts of your
>> > > > > > > applications
>> > > > > > > work. You can. e.g. script the browser to register as a user,
>> > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > after changing some parts of your application, you know with a
>> > > single
>> > > > > > > click whether it had any negative influences on the user
>> > > registering
>> > > > > > > part of your app.
>> >
>> > > > > > > I don't have time to write any more stuff, but I guess this
>> > > > > > > will
>> > > lead
>> > > > > > > you into the right direction.
>> >
>> > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:25 PM, netusco
>> > > > > > > <[email protected]>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > I've been recently wondering wether to use SimpleTest or
>> > > > > > > > not...
>> > > so I
>> > > > > > > > thought to ask what does people do. As I'm learning
>> > > > > > > > programing
>> > > always
>> > > > > > > > by myself I don't know how others work... but it seems to me
>> > > > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > > using cake test for normal little applications is a pain in
>> > > > > > > > the
>> > > ass as
>> > > > > > > > for the amount of coding needed. Also to test if a function
>> > > > > > > > is
>> > > > > > > > returning correctly the format of an amount in EUR as in one
>> > > > > > > > of
>> > > the
>> > > > > > > > cookbook examples it seems to me stupid, as when I code a
>> > > > > > > > method
>> > > like
>> > > > > > > > that I try to make shure it gives back the expected result
>> > > > > > > > and if
>> > > it
>> > > > > > > > ever brakes is because I had given an invalid value or
>> > > > > > > > something
>> > > > > > > > similar...
>> >
>> > > > > > > > But I can be totally wrong as I had seen a video of mark
>> > > encoraging to
>> > > > > > > > use testing.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > So my question would be wether people use it or not and if
>> > > > > > > > people
>> > > use
>> > > > > > > > it only for big app or even for small ones.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > thanks!
>> >
>> > > > > > > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions
>> > > sitehttp://cakeqs.organdhelpotherswiththeir CakePHP related questions.
>> >
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>> >
>> > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organd help
>> > > others
>> > > with their CakePHP related questions.
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>>
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