you are right, it is sometimes hard to commumicate exactly what we mean physically when we are using just words. sharedweight is good practice for us! inexperienced was a poor choice of word for the dancers who go to (and sometimes absolutely prefer) ceilidh type dances to other types (just like some of us prefer contra). my experience is fairly limited and i did see a lot of stuff that was unfamiliar to me. but there IS a real difference in that i never met anyone at a club-type dance who was a rank beginner. so it's a difference experience. and i apologize for the use of the word inexperienced - my bad. the references about swinging pretty much refer to the higher-energy swings that i am used to seeing (my local dances are full of crazy kids). it really has to be a cooperative effort, but there are a lot of guys who swing fast and hard, and a lot of ladies who have never been taught that they have to do anything but let the guy throw them around - and so i hear complaints about dizziness, going too fast, rotator cuff injuries (had a friend to had to have surgery a few years ago), shoulder and back pain, etc. i think a certain amount of this comes because of the cross-over these days between the contra dance world and the swing dance world. fancy figures and aerials, as attempted by swing dancers (and banned at some contras), kind of morph into contra dancing without much consideration for the structure of the line and the safety of the people around them. yes, the range of skill goes from excellent to terrible. unfortunately, sometimes we have to instruct new dancers how to protect themselves from bad dancers - without, of course, using any of those words. of course, i demo everything when i teach the class. even if my words may not exactly make sense to my students, when i SHOW them and also tell them, i can generally get the message across to anyone who's receptive. for me, in class, the important thing is to teach them a good way to dance that will be fun and not cause injury. anyway - interesting discussion, everyone. barb (who is not beth)
> From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2011 10:14:10 +0100 > Subject: [Callers] Re Swinging > > Hi Beth, > As I said at the beginning of my post, I apologise for > anything I may have misunderstood. It looks as though I may have not > understood exactly where you were suggesting that the lady should place > her hand. And I still don't understand statements such as "make him > pull her through the swing" and "holding on to the gent a little bit so > that he isn't the only one working during the swing". If you both keep > your own balance and work the swing with your feet, then the upper > bodies should be an effortless, relaxed symmetrical, counter-balanced, > coupling that both parties can enjoy. > > I suspect we won't get any further with this discussion > unless we continue it on the dance floor. I am sure you are a wonderful > swinger and I look forward to meeting you on the dance floor somewhere, > somewhen - we vacation in the US every year and visit contra dance > weekends and local clubs as much as possible. > > Yes, we do have high-energy contras in the UK - but they are > much rarer than in the US. Yes, there are lots of more sedate swingers > at the local Folk Dance Clubs - many of them are in the 70s and 80s - > and many of them swing beautifully. The regular Ceilidh dancers would > be most upset that you think them inexperienced - there are many who go > regularly to ceilidhs and are excellent dancers. And there is a much > wider variety of swings at ceilidhs, such as traveling swings and > hornpipe swings (when the music is at 80bpm instead of 120bpm the > buzz-step doesn't work - you need to do a step hop and need different > connection), plus lots of stepping. > > And across all the different types of event on both sides of > the Atlantic, I generally find that there is a complete range of > swinging skills, from excellent to terrible. > > As in the US, there are lots of One Night Stand type events > (barn dances (but often called ceilidhs) at weddings, parties, community > gatherings, etc.) where virtually all the attendees are beginners. > > - - - - - > > Marianne then said: > "I've found that the most comfortable position for my partner and me is > for us both to have our hand on the other's shoulder blade (that is to > say, on the back rather than the top of the shoulder)." > I know lots of people who find that very uncomfortable - they can't > reach, or can, but only by clamping down the man's arm. And it does, > sadly, mean that a clockwise exit from the swing is dangerous, if not > impossible. > > "Push gently there" > WHY? You have just created a beautiful, relaxed symmetrical, > counter-balance with your partner, the man's right hand is on the lady's > left shoulder-blade to ensure that you stay connected when centrifugal > force increases. Why push? If you push with your back it makes the > other person's arm tired. If you push with your hand, no matter how > gently, it causes discomfort. Why push? > > "the woman might have her whole arm draped down the man's with a bit of > tension pressing down" > No, you don't need to press down - it has no beneficial effect and > causes discomfort - as does putting your hand on the side of his arm and > pressing in - something that lots of ladies do - again, no benefit, lots > of discomfort! > > "but I haven't seen it work well in contra unless the woman is > experienced enough to dance upright and bear her own weight" > You don't have to be experienced to dance upright and bear your own > weight. We have all been doing it since we started walking! It only > becomes a problem when beginners are taught to lean or misunderstand > terms like "give weight". I always start a buzz-step swing instructional > by getting the dancers to practise turning fast alone with a buzz-step, > so that they learn to keep their own balance. > > - - - - - - - > > Sorry if I sound a bit passionate about this topic, but I > love swinging, and have had so many bad experiences because of ladies > who push, pull, lean, drag, lift, squeeze, strangle, clamp, grip, dig in > or hang off the man! I have had two shoulder operations - I am hoping > that I won't have to have any more! > > Happy dancing, > John > > John Sweeney, Dancer, England [email protected] 01233 625 362 & > 07802 940 574 > http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events, Instructional DVDs and > Interactive Maps > http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
