On Monday 31 August 2015 03:46:23 Friedrich W. H. Kossebau wrote: > Am Sonntag, 30. August 2015, 20:36:06 schrieb Boudewijn Rempt: > > Long mail :-) Sven already said a lot of what I wanted to say. The thing > > is, with KOffice 2.0, we actually got further along the road to making > > fine-grained composite document possible. We got further than Apple, > > IBM or Microsoft with projects like Taligent, Opendocs or OLE. Sure, we > > made architectural mistakes, but to very large extent, the result works. > > Which is what seems so great about Calligra for me :) > > > With Calligra Gemini you can already combine hand-written annotations > > with your document, for instance. > > Oh, not noticed that, how can one do that? I saw voice and pre-made > stickers, but pen input based option is at least not visible to me in the > UI, also not on a touch device. Which code to look out for?
The scribbling only works for on-canvas presentation things, not for documents in general - it is indeed only pre-made stickers (and stylised sticker type things with a small amount of text), not full blown scribble- everywhere support. > Then, Calligra Gemini seems rather dead, no commit since it was imported :/ > But I have hopes that I can sit together with leinir at Randa next week :) > and revive this former beauty (rotten in master ATM) or at least see how to > rescue the QtQuick bits for other usages. That is absolutely happening, yes - i use Gemini daily, and would be more than a little sad to see it go away :) > > There are just two gotchas: the first is that for all of that, Krita's > > specific strengths aren't needed, but on the other hand, a lot of > > ballast. There are at least two image filter implementations in Calligra > > next to Krita's, and those are more suited for compound documents, > > for instance. > > Not sure how things are ballast if they are done behind proper abstraction > layers. What do you mean "filters" in "image filters"? > > > The other is that the users aren't there. It was a grand vision, and > > one that's really attractive to software developers, but users care > > about one thing: getting the job done asap, so they can quit the word > > processor and go back to doing their real work. And they're right. > > IMHO the users are not here, because most of Calligra's apps were never > ready as editors, due to being crashy as hell, losing data and having > incomplete features, especially compared to their usecase rivals. > The code was/is fine for loading and viewing documents. Both confirmed and > reinforced by the commercial products made from Calligra code, as you said. > And that is also why I picked up the Okular plugins of Calligra, to make > this viewer power available to more players. > But the code for document manipulation and storing seems to never have seen > a similar care. Krita is the happy exception here. > > The other problem is also that development of the core has stalled. Krita > started to do workarounds to the existing core instead of seeing how to > coevolve the core with the other apps, from what I saw. Surely also because > of lack of interest of developers for other apps. > > Then, my real work would rather be in the "word processor" or even something > bigger. Because it's not just a few lines of text that I do. I am talking > about rich content. That is why I am here in Calligra. See below. > > So, I don't see at least this gotcha. > > > That's another difference between Krita and office applications. Office > > applications, unless you happen to be a novelist, support doing work, are > > not tools to do the actual work. You use krita to produce the deliverable > > you send to a customer, you use Words to create the accompanying invoice. > > Perhaps that's where you miss my needs :) > I am not interested in a software to just drop a few lines of text onto a > sheet. And still I am not a novelist. No. > I am interested in a software that allows me to create my long and content- > rich reports, backed from database and other external sources, to create my > leaflets, to create my hangout for the blackboard, invitation cards, content > enriched letters to friends, tutorials, sheets with drafts for UI and > architecture of software, drafts for garden design, costume drafts, etc. > pp. With all kind of content types, wildly mixed on the same sheet. > (He, I did the xfig import filter for a reason, like I started on the > CorelDraw one) > > Something where LO, Scribus or Inkscape do not cut it, for different > reasons. > > Having to write completely different software for reports, for leaflets, for > hangouts, for invitation cards, for letters, for tutorials, for room > concepts, for costume drafts, etc. seems insane to me. I still have the > hope and many ideas, how reusable fine-grained components for the different > kind of content types should allow to assemble working shells optimized for > a certain main document type. Like one for doing long reports. And another > for doing invitation cards. And a third for costume drafts. > Like I can setup my real world desk or bench for different document types, > by placing the usual content material and working tools in reach. > > I did not clean up Calligra code and worked hard to push it together will > all over the Qt5 hurdle for nothing, there would be lots of more enjoyable > things in life to do ;) No. Hopefully I qualify not as mad, but I have a > long TODO list for Calligra libs, and some code drafts. And now we are > almost past intial Qt5/KF5 port, I so look forward to finally go for > improvements. > > And as I said elsewhere, my "word processor" will need color correctness. > Because it can contain colorful content (even if just a photo), and I > dislike it if things look different on different devices or on paper. > Others might not, I do. And thus it is important to me :) > > Cheers > Friedrich > _______________________________________________ > calligra-devel mailing list > calligra-devel@kde.org > https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-devel -- ..dan / leinir.. http://leinir.dk/ _______________________________________________ calligra-devel mailing list calligra-devel@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/calligra-devel