Sadly, Eddy, high form and widespread form of corruption is Asian culture, not just unique to Cambodia. Traditiponaly, the whole cambodia and its people and country resources existed only for consumption by the ruling elites. The culture of law abiding and enforcement had never taken root - no matter what system of governance. The former communists are the most corrupt. You come to Cabramatta, many Asian accountants, engage in shonky tax claims. Those who do the right things are shunned by clients as incompetent. This is why most Asian countries are still struggling with all sorts of abuses in society. Yes, courruption exists also in the Anglo-Saxon culture, but no where near level seen in Asian culture.
SL ----- Original Message ---- From: Eddy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Cambodia Discussion (CAMDISC) - www.cambodia.org <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, 27 August, 2008 11:23:02 AM Subject: Re: The world leader in corruption is ... Cambodia. Sadly as usual this discussion has descended into a tit for tat name calling session. I hope the nom de plume "destinyformankind" is a sick joke or god help us. Oh! and by the way check where your fingers have been. As "kangaroo" stated originally corruption is unfortunately a cultural problem. If not, why do so many Cambodians who no not live in Cambodia engage in the practice?. Admittedly not to the same extent as is done in Cambodia (and a lot of other countries) but with the advantage of free heath cover, pensions, reasonable if not well paid jobs and social services do the still feel it is necessary to try to "cheat the system". Registering the vehicle in grandma's name for the pensioner discount, using her pension card to obtain healthcare and medicine discounts, putting the pensioner member of the family as house owners name to obtain utility discounts etc. Whilst it may be considered "smart" and may be at the lower end of the corruption scale it non the less is a form of corruption. Then of course there are the immigration "experts" who for a not inconsiderable amount will "jump the queue" for you. Surprisingly these practices take place without any Vietnamese influence, how could that possibly be?. This of course does not address the problem as it exists within Cambodia. Human nature being what it is if you can see someone higher up the tree getting away with it the chances are you will give it a try. This means that if those at the top of the tree are unable or unwilling to engage in corrupt practices they will make damn sure those lower down will not do it either. Unfortunately the hope that foreign educated Cambodians returning to Cambodia will help to curb corruption is a false hope, as many of those returning use their better education to engage in more sophisticated forms of corruption. As foreign tourism has become a major part of the Cambodian economy corruption is becoming a well known disincentive to overseas visitors. Why does a $20 entry visa suddenly become $25? and prices for known price items change determined by your language. On Aug 27, 12:10 am, เดช <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > bozo kangaroo. u r a refugee a homeless. i know cambodia like my own > fingers. > > On Aug 26, 9:04 am, kangaroo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Now you are showing the real destructive element of the Cambodian > > soicety. > > Reread you comments. > > At first, you were doing very good by sticking to subject presented. > > Then you say something completely out of the context because you can't > > win the original. > > Cambodian people do that all the time. > > They try bully themselves and destroy the others when they cannot win. > > How dum can it be? > > Yet do you call that a country? > > That's idiots. > > > On Aug 26, 6:53 am, เดช <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > bozo kangaroo. > > > u r a refugee ur citizenship doesn't make you a yanki when the white > > > supremacy look at you, u r always a homeless to them. > > > i have breakfast in pp, drink beer in sv, dinner in bangkok, and see > > > movie in singapore every day, i knew what it likes. > > > your record is not matched what has been happening in the region. > > > don't spend time to preach me, bozo. to me and to the supremacy, u r a > > > homeless. > > > > On Aug 25, 10:35 pm, kangaroo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > What does Cambodians from the outside have anything to do with > > > > Cambodia. > > > > Your comment is an insult to the Cambodian intelligence. They are not > > > > as stupid as you think. > > > > The Cambodian people have the knowledge and power to do it. The only > > > > thing that they lack is an honest leader who can put it together so > > > > they can participate. Today, CPP has been doing it. That's why no > > > > other parties have earned the real trust from the Cambodian people > > > > yet. > > > > Cambodia today is not like Cambodia thirty years ago. > > > > Cambodian youth today is far more educated and live far modern as many > > > > people from the outside think. > > > > The notion of Cambodians from the outside to teach them is another > > > > insult to their intelligence. > > > > Remember! This kind of rhetorics fuel the division notion to destroy > > > > Cambodia. Cambodian peasants felt this way for a very long time. Upper > > > > class Cambodians always looked down to those poor people.That was why > > > > they revenged when they were elevated to the upper class by the > > > > KhmerRouge. > > > > Here it is again. "Vietnamese is running Cambodia." is just another > > > > insult to the Cambodian intelligence. > > > > Can Cambodians not able to run their own country except those from the > > > > outside? > > > > Cambodian people would never allowed that kind of notion to run their > > > > lives. > > > > My friend, > > > > Don't think that you know alot because you live outside of Cambodia. > > > > > Now you don't believe that it is a culture of the Cambodian culture. > > > > Sihanouk lead the country for a very long time in the 60s. Were > > > > Vietnamese there too. > > > > Lon Nol ran the country in the first half of the 70s. Were Vietnamese > > > > there too? > > > > Khmer Rouge destroyed the country in the second half of the 70s. Were > > > > Vietnamese there too? > > > > Now, Hun Sen lead the country for a while. Have Vitnamese been there > > > > too? > > > > The bad part of Cambodia is the fault of Vietnamese. > > > > Are only good parts belonged to Cambodia? > > > > > On Aug 25, 9:08 am, เดช <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > the change cannot be within, it has to be from cambodian outside. they > > > > > shoud help the new ones to get a head in education. > > > > > the new ones can be changed but no the ones are inside. the generals > > > > > never been in school with stars report to the vietnamese, and they are > > > > > the eyes and ears of the vietnamese, they are corrupted and their > > > > > children are the same. the vietnamese promoted them to top and they > > > > > report to the vietnamese that's how it is. it is not cambodian > > > > > culture, it is a cold war of the vietnamese to keep cambodia under > > > > > develppment. get rid of the under develpped mind like chau bury who > > > > > speaks only fools to destroy the image of cambodia, cambodia can get > > > > > better. > > > > > > On Aug 25, 10:17 am, kangaroo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > My friend, > > > > > > Corruption and impunity in Cambodia are not just being practiced by > > > > > > these few people. > > > > > > These things have been a part of the Cambodian culture. They > > > > > > practice > > > > > > it religiously from the bottom to the top of the society. There are > > > > > > classes. There are power. There are richness and poor. > > > > > > These are elements of the Cambodian corruption and impunity. > > > > > > The Cambodian society as the whole must change their culture if they > > > > > > want to minimize corruption and eliminate impunity. > > > > > > When are they going to do? > > > > > > Probably never. > > > > > > > On Aug 25, 4:16 am, Ông-thu N <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hun Chea, a nephew of Cambodia's prime minster, was speeding > > > > > > > along a busy downtown street a few days ago when he ran down a > > > > > > > man on a motorbike. > > > > > > > Phnom Penh's streets are teeming with motorbikes, hundreds of > > > > > > > them, criss-crossing busy traffic without seeming to look or care > > > > > > > where they are going. Collisions are inevitable. But that's not > > > > > > > the point of this story. > > > > > > > Hun was tearing down the street at high speed when he hit the > > > > > > > biker, witnesses reported, and his car ripped off an arm and a > > > > > > > leg. The biker, Sam Sabo, was killed. Hun began to drive off, but > > > > > > > running over the motorbike had shredded a tire. He had to pull > > > > > > > over, so there he sat in his big black Cadillac Escalade SUV. > > > > > > > Now, listen to how the Phnom Penh Post newspaper described the > > > > > > > events that followed. > > > > > > > "Numerous traffic police were seen avoiding the accident scene, > > > > > > > but armed military police arrived. They removed the SUV's license > > > > > > > plates and comforted Hun Chea" while Sam Sabo lay bleeding to > > > > > > > death in the street. A military policeman was overheard telling > > > > > > > Hun: "'Don't worry. It wasn't your mistake. It was the motorbike > > > > > > > driver's mistake.'" A few days later, Hun gave the dead man's > > > > > > > family $4,000 in hush money, the paper reported.. Case closed. > > > > > > > It's no secret that Cambodia is thoroughly corrupt. As an > > > > > > > indirect result, the rich and the powerful can commit, well, > > > > > > > murder and face few if any repercussions. > > > > > > > A primary rule of foreign correspondence is to avoid applying the > > > > > > > values of your own country on the nation you are covering. But > > > > > > > then, some events appear so outrageous that the rule does not > > > > > > > apply. > > > > > > > Police actually removed the car's license plates, to conceal the > > > > > > > driver's identity? So I asked Khieu Kanarith, Cambodia's > > > > > > > information minister, about the case. He fumbled about for a > > > > > > > moment and then explained, "I understand he had his wife in the > > > > > > > car, and I don't think he was paying attention to what he was > > > > > > > doing." OK, but the police removed the license plates? Khieu had > > > > > > > to think about that for a moment but finally managed to say, "You > > > > > > > try to cover the plates because it's harder to sell a car if it's > > > > > > > been in an accident." As a reporter, sometimes it's hard to keep > > > > > > > a straight face. But then, being Cambodia's information minister > > > > > > > is a tough job. > > > > > > > Later I asked Joseph Mussomeli, the U.S. ambassador, about this, > > > > > > > and he shook his head. > > > > > > > "This goes to the whole culture of impunity here. Who you are, > > > > > > > who you know, is more important than following the law. And the > > > > > > > police are too intimidated, too deferential, to the wealthy and > > > > > > > powerful." Why else would the traffic police assertively avoid > > > > > > > the scene of the accident, even with a dying man lying in the > > > > > > > street? They knew full well that the owner of a Cadillac Escalade > > > > > > > SUV in this exceedingly poor country is quite likely to be well > > > > > > > connected. > > > > > > > Impunity is a word that comes up over and over in Cambodia. > > > > > > > Last month, two men speeding by on a motorbike shot and killed > > > > > > > Khim Sambor and his 21-year-old son as they walked down the > > > > > > > street. Khim was a reporter for Khmer Conscience, an opposition > > > > > > > newspaper, and not surprisingly the paper had been writing > > > > > > > critically about the government. > > > > > > > No one has been arrested.. That is true for dozens of apparent > > > > > > > contract killings in recent years just like that one. No one has > > > > > > > proved that government officials are behind them. But then, why > > > > > > > else would the police make no effort to solve any of these > > > > > > > crimes? Cambodia has come a long way in the last several years. > > > > > > > Phnom Penh is teeming with tourists. The economy is growing. The > > > > > > > nation has been stable for more than a decade now, which is no > > > > > > > small accomplishment. > > > > > > > Over the years, I have worked in many corrupt states — Iraq, > > > > > > > Sudan, Afghanistan, among others. But in none of them is the > > > > > > > corruption so pervasive, even pandemic. Prime Minister Hun Sen > > > > > > > just won re-election to a new five-year term. For a decade, the > > > > > > > United States and many other countries have been pressing him to > > > > > > > pass a comprehensive anti-corruption law. Hun continually > > > > > > > promises but never delivers. > > > > > > > Cambodians deserve better. If Cambodia hopes to join the ranks of > > > > > > > the world's prosperous and respected nations, it must enact — and > > > > > > > enforce — an anti-corruption law. With that, in time, the shiny > > > > > > > mantle of impunity resting softly on the shoulders of the rich > > > > > > > and well-connected will begin to fall away.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - Need a holiday? Check out Yahoo!Xtra Travel - http://nz.travel.yahoo.com/ --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cambodia Discussion (CAMDISC) - www.cambodia.org" group. This is an unmoderated forum. Please refrain from using foul language. Thank you for your understanding. Peace among us and in Cambodia. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/camdisc Learn more - http://www.cambodia.org -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
